Friday, February 19, 2016

Neither Chris Ferrara or Mark Shea were affirming the Feeneyite position on extra ecclesiam nulla salus

Comments from The Eponymous Flower : Ferrara vs. Shea Debate-- Mark Shea Must be a Feeneyite Now!

Chris Ferrara Vs Mark Shea
http://www.aotmclub.com/index.asp?pageID=18 









Argument of the Month : Shea vs Ferrara Video


So despite having Shea admit that membership in the Church is necessary for salvation, it was really unclear just what church he was talking about, although for Ferrara never took him to task on this point, as Shea histrionically waved his hands about people listening to Relevant Radio and reading his books.

Lionel:
I don't think either of the two were affirming the Feeneyite position on extra ecclesiam nulla salus.


Objectively speaking Jews need to believe and be baptised or else be condemned - Chris Ferrara
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2016/02/objectively-speaking-jews-need-to.html

Tear the Vatican Document on the Jews and throw it in the dustbin says Chris Ferrara
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2016/02/tear-vatican-docment-on-jews-and-throw.html

Chris Ferrara unknowingly uses an irrational premise and supports magisterial heresy
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2016/02/chris-ferrara-unknowingly-uses.html

There can be mission Ad Gentes with Feeneyism or Cushingism. We can choose.For Pope Francis and the Jesuits it is mission with Cushingism
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2016/02/their-can-be-mission-ad-gentes-with.html

Chris Ferrara - Mark Shea debate : both are theologically rejecting the dogma EENS

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2016/02/chris-ferrara-mark-shea-debate-both-are.html
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http://eponymousflower.blogspot.it/2016/01/ferrara-vs-shea-debat-mark-shea-must-be.html#comment-form

Reconquest, the Radio Show, with Brother André Marie



http://catholicism.org/reconquest-radio-plug-on-youtube.html

Their interpretation cannot be the teaching of the Holy Spirit.Since the Holy Spirit cannot teach an irrationality nor teach something new, which is a break with the old magisterium of the Catholic Church.

Comments from the blog post :
The Vatican Curia and Newman Theological College,Canada have to use an irrationality to interpret magisterial documents as a break with EENS 
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2016/02/the-vatican-curia-and-newman.html



Related image



 




Remnant Clergy:
So would all the people who were physically unable to even hear of the Catholic Church, such as native Indians of North America before Christianity got to them, all damned without exception?

Lionel:
Yes this was the teaching of the Catholic Church for centuries until an error was made in the Baltimore Catechism and the Letter of the Holy Office to the Archbishop of Boston 1949.Then the error was placed in Vatican Council II indirectly in UR 3, LG 8, AG 11 etc and directly in LG 14. LG 14 suggests only those who know need to enter the Church formallly for salvation.
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Same for Buddhists in China or any other similar circumstance.
Lionel:

Yes.
Vatican Council II (AG 7, LG 14) also says all need faith and baptism for salvation. Most people we know, die without Catholic Faith. They are oriented to Hell.
This is the pre and post Vatican Council II official teaching of the Catholic Church.It is interpreted with Feeneyism as a theology and without irrational Cushingism.
Cushingism, is named after Archbishop Richard Cushing and the Jesuits of that time in Boston.It suggests there are known exceptions to the Feeneyite interpretatiom of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
1.If there are known exceptions, then the implication is that there are people in Heaven saved without the baptism of water and they are personally known, physically visible to be exceptions to the centuries old interpretation of the dogma on salvation.They would have to be known to be an exception. They would have to be visible and not invisible. So we know that this proposition is fantasy.
2.
Or, it means there are known persons on earth, who we know, will be saved without 'faith and baptism'.This is not possible. Since this can be known only to God.

In faith, following the perennial magisterium of the Church guided by the Holy Spirit, we know that most people are oriented to the fires of Hell since they die without Catholic Faith. Catholic Faith includes the Sacraments and the faith and moral teachings of the Church.

This means rejecting the teachings of the contemporary magisterium, which uses irrational Cushing theology, to interpret Vatican Council II, the Catechism of the Catholic Church etc.Their interpretation cannot be the teaching of the Holy Spirit.Since the Holy Spirit cannot teach an irrationality nor teach something new, which is a break with the old magisterium of the Catholic Church.

So one can still follow the perennial magisterium and accept Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church (1992) interpreted with rational and traditional Feeneyism - and wait for the contemporary magisterim and the traditionalists to catch up.
-Lionel Andrades




See the difference!

FOR ME

I assume hypothetical cases are hypothetical and not objective.So they are not relevant to the old ecclesiology as exceptions. I accept Vatican Council II with no exceptions to EENS.
Since there are no exceptions to EENS there is no change in the traditional ecclesiology of the Church.This is the traditional teaching of the Catholic Church supported by the Holy Spirit.It is magisterial.
So I am affirming the official teachings of the Church according to the magisterium, according to magisterial texts and documents (Vatican Council II,Catechism of the Catholic Church 1257,845,846, Council of Trent, Cantate Dominio, Council of Florence etc) .


FOR THEM
Image result for Photos Newman Theological College Canada

The Vatican Curia and NTC are a break with the traditional magisterium, they are also irrational and have based their theology on a lie ( there are visible persons in Heaven without the baptism of water).
They are not magisterial since they can only affirm the official teachings of the Church according to magisterial texts and documents, interpretated with an irrational premise and inference (Vatican Council II, Catechism of the Catholic Church 1257,845,846, Council of Trent, Cantate Dominio, Council of Florence etc).They have to use an irrationality to interpret these magisterial documents as a break with EENS.This cannot be the teaching of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit cannot teach a lie or make an objective error.
-Lionel Andrades
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2016/02/the-vatican-curia-and-newman.html