Saturday, January 17, 2015

Mark Shea ,EWTN,NCR are formally rejecting a defined dogma, the Nicene Creed and a rational Vatican Council II with their irrationality

AvatarThere is a comment on Mark Shea's blog.I  respond here.
Comment by

1. How does your link to your site, relate to Mark Shea's post about hypocrisies? 2. It is written in our Catechism that even non-Catholics who live by the Word of Our Lord especially the majority who have never been afforded the opportunity to read it, e.g. those who have opened their hearts to and blessed by the Holy Spirit, will also be saved. This is inherent to the Church, and distinguishes us from many Protestant sects.


1. How does your link to your site, relate to Mark Shea's post about hypocrisies?
Lionel:
Mark Shea rejects the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, as defined by three Church Councils and taught over centuries by popes and saints.He accepts the Marchetti Letter which assumes that the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance are exceptions to the dogma as interpreted by Fr.Leonard Feeney.In other words persons in Heaven are living exceptions on earth to all need to be formal members fo the Church (with faith and baptism) to avoid Hell.
This is the factual error also in the editorial policy of the National Catholic Register and EWTN.




 
He also contradicts Church documents before 1949 which do not mention the baptism of desire and being being saved in invincible ignorance, as referring to cases known to us in the present times i.e defacto or explicitly visible. Neither does Mystici Corporis or the Council of Trent allege that these cases are known and visble to us and so are exceptions to traditonal extra ecclesiam nulla salus. So if we do not know of any such case how can they be exceptions to the dogma for Mark Shea, the National Catholic Register and EWTN? This was the objective mistake of the Letter of the Holy Office 1949.
Mark Shea then uses this same irrationality (false premise (dead are visible) with a false conclusion(they exceptions to all needing to convert) to allege that Lumen Gentium 16 ( saved in invincible ignorance ) is an explicit exception to Ad Gentes 7 ( all need faith and baptism for salvation) and Cantate Dominio, Council of Florence 1441 on extra ecclesiam nulla salus.


Like EWTN and the NCR he is also rejecting the Nicene Creed by inferring  'I do not believe in one (known) baptism, the baptism of water but three or more known baptisms ( blood, desire, seeds of the Word, invincible ignorance, good conscience etc) This is irrational and heretical. The baptism of desire and blood are  known only to God. We do not know any one who will be saved with the 'seeds of the Word'(AG 11) etc.
He rejects the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, changes the Nicene Creed and presents us with an irrational interpretation of Vatican Council II.

2. It is written in our Catechism that even non-Catholics who live by the Word of Our Lord especially the majority who have never been afforded the opportunity to read it, e.g. those who have opened their hearts to and blessed by the Holy Spirit, will also be saved. Lionel:
Yes they can be saved and these cases are accepted as possibilities known only to God and unknown to Mark Shea. Also the possibility could include God sending them a preacher  to teach them the true faith, as St.Thomas Aquinas taught.
Mark Shea cannot say that any particular person in 2015 has been saved as such or will be saved as such in future without Catholic Faith.The Catechism of the Catholic Church does not state this.
Secondly since these cases are unknown possibilities, even if there are many of them(100's) they are irrelevant to the dogma.The dogma tells us  all need to be formal members of the Church in 2015 for salvation.'Zero cases of something are not exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus' says the apologist John Martignoni, who has a program on apologetics, at EWTN.
This is inherent to the Church, and distinguishes us from many Protestant sects.
Lionel:
The Church also teaches that all need to be formal members of the Catholic  Church for salvation.The Council of Florence indicates Protestants and Orthodox Christians are on the way to the fires of Hell unless they convert into the Church. Ad Gentes 7 has the same message.
-Lionel Andrades
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/markshea/2015/01/point-of-clarification.html#comment-1797267293
 
 
 
Mark Shea blocks comment,discussion on National Catholic Register error