In 1922 the Church still held the old understanding of salvation

from the website Whispers of Restoration

The Catechism Simply Explained, Canon Henry Cafferata, 1922

261. Is Baptism necessary for salvation?

Baptism is necessary for salvation, because Christ has said, "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God" (John vi. 5).

Hence one cannot be too careful about baptism, and a child should be baptised as soon as possible. If there is any doubt about the validity of baptism, the person must be baptised again conditionally. The priest in that case says, N., if thou art not baptised, I baptise thee in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. To make sure of their baptism converts to the Catholic Faith are often re-baptised conditionally. Baptism by water is a necessary means of getting to heaven. But our Lord has provided two other ways of getting to heaven, when actual baptism by water is impossible. They are known as the Baptism of Blood and the Baptism of Desire. The Baptism of Blood took place in the martyrs who proclaimed themselves Christians and were put to death for the Faith before they could actually be baptised. Our Lord's promise of the saving value of martyrdom is given in the words. He that loseth his life for me shall find it(Matt. 10:39). Even the infants who were put to death by Herod are honoured by the Church as saints. They were not baptised with water, of course; but, because they were massacred for our Lord's sake, they suffered martyrdom; they confessed Him, not by speaking, but by dying, as the liturgy says. Their feast (the Holy Innocents) is on 28th December.

The Baptism of Desire is an act of perfect love of God or of perfect contrition (see 293, 294) with a desire (at least implicit) to receive the Sacrament of Baptism. That the Baptism of Desire is valid for salvation is assured by our Lord's words: He that loveth me shall be loved of my Father: and I will love him(John 14:21). But, while the Baptism of Blood and the Baptism of Desire obtain for us the state of grace, they do not confer the character (see 253). Only the Sacrament of Baptism confers the character; and therefore it alone makes us members of the Church and able to receive the other sacraments.

http://www.catholicapologetics.info/thechurch/catechism/Cafferata.htm

Lionel: Here Canon Henry Cafferata in 1922 has said that the Sacrament of Baptism, 'it alone' makes us members of the Church.He means de facto this is the only way to be a members of the Church. Practically we cannot be members of the Church with the baptism of desire, baptism of blood and being saved in invincible ignorance.
He says,'But, while the Baptism of Blood and the Baptism of Desire obtain for us the state of grace, they do not confer the character'.Yes they are not visible and they cannot be given like the Baptism of Desire.

We can say that a person with the Baptism of Water and Catholic faith, is oriented to Heaven. But we cannot say that any particular person will go to Heaven, without the baptism of water but instead with invincible ignorance, through no fault of his own.

So in 1922 this Catechism still seems to be holding on to the old ecclesiology, the old understanding of exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church, with faith and the baptism of water.

The 1994 Catechism assumes invincible ignorance is an exception to all needing to be members of the Church for salvation.So we have the slogans to support the New Theology, like ' all who are saved are saved through Jesus and the Church', 'God is not limited to the Sacraments' etc.
The same mistake is there in Vatican Council II(LG 14) and the Letter of the Holy Office 1949.They assume that being saved in invincible ignorance refer to defacto and known people saved outside the Church and so are practical exceptions to EENS. So the conclusion is that not every one needs to enter the Church for salvation but only those who 'know', those who are not in ignorance, through no fault of their own.-Lionel Andrades

Whispers of Restoration website promotes Cushingite traditionalism : read with caution Catechism of 1949

In 1949 with the Letter of the Holy Office  the past ecclesiology of the Church was being changed with alleged unknown cases of the baptism of desire etc being interpreted as being known.This is reflected in the Catechism of 1949.

To assume that the baptism of desire refers to a known person in the present times, 1949 or 2018, is irrational. Then to make this premise the foundation of ones reasoning will produce an irrational and non traditional conclusion.

Similarly to assume that being saved in invincible ignorance through no fault of ones own refers to a known person saved as such in 1949, 1965 or 2018, is irrational.There is no known person whom we can see or meet who has been saved as such. If there was any exception in Heaven it would only be known to God.

Being saved in invincible ignorance has nothing to do with the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus or the old ecclesiology of the Church.

When Lumen Gentium 14, Vatican Council II tells us that not every one needs to enter the Church for salvation but only those who 'know', those who are no in ignorance , this is false. Since this reasoning assumes that there are known people who are exceptions to the dogma EENS.The dogma says all need to be members of the Church for salvation.

So when the team at Whispers of Restoration suggests that  not every one needs to enter the Church and that there are people who are in ignorance through no fault of their own, and are exceptions to the dogma EENS or relevant to the past ecclesiology, this is meaningless and an innovation. Practically we cannot judge who will be saved, or not saved in ignorance. The norm is faith and baptism in the Church.The norm is membership in the Church.
If there is a man in the forest in invincible ignorance through no fault of his own and who is to be saved,  it will always be a hypothetical case for us.This is not the norm. The norm for salvation is faith and the baptism of water.
So there cannot be any practical exceptions to the norm on earth for us, since only God could know of exceptions.Invincible ignorance cases are not exceptions to the norm.

So this website supports thes new theology( outside the Church there is known salvation) and philosophy( there are visible cases of BOD etc).

In this specific case(70.Salvation and the Catholic Church), it is not clear what was written in the original Catechism of 1949 and what is the opinion, the add-on version of the website team.-Lionel Andrades

From the website Whispers of Restoration

Catechism : My Catholic Faith by Br. Louis Morrow 1949.

70. Salvation and the Catholic Church

What do we mean when we say, "Outside the Church there is no salvation? --When we say, "Outside the Church there is no salvation", we mean that those who through their own grave fault do not know that the Catholic Church is the true Church, or knowing it, refuse to join it, cannot be saved.

Lionel: This is Cushingism, or Americanism.

It assumes invisible cases of the baptism of desire, baptism of blood and being saved in invincible ignorance are visible exceptions to the traditional interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS). So since invincible ignorance refers to known people saved outside the Church the new doctrine became 'not all' and instead' only those who know', 'those who are not in ignorance'.
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(The following material has been added by a pro-SSPX source and is not part of the original Catechism.These are all Cushingite sources and should be rejected.

The 3 Baptisms, Three Errors of the Feeneyite Movement (Please Click Here)

Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus (No Salvation Outside the Church) (Please Click Here)
The One True Church (Please Click Here)
The Church or the Bible (Please Click Here)
The few who will be saved (Please Click Hear)

More on the few who will be saved (Please Click Here)  )

Lionel: It is not clear for me if the following has been added on by the website team as a form of explanation or it is there in the original text of this catechism.
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All are obliged to belong to the Catholic Church in order to be saved. Christ said: "Amen, amen, I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into, the kingdom of God" (John 3:5).The Catholic Church is founded on the Apostles, to whom Our Lord gave the commission to baptize; by Baptism one is made a member of the Church. If then Baptism is indispensable, the Church must be indispensable.

Christ did not die for a part of, but for all mankind. He did not leave His legacy the Church for the benefit of a few, but for all. Our Lord said: "He who hears you hears me; and he who rejects you rejects me" (Luke 10:16).Since God commanded all to be members of His Church. those who deliberately disobey His command will not be saved. Whoever, through his own fault, remains outside of the Catholic Church, will be lost eternally.

One who, knowing the Catholic Church to be the true one, leaves it or does not join it because he wants to make a good marriage, to advance his business, or for some other worldly motive, will not be saved. He is a willful and malicious unbeliever.One who leaves the Church or does not enter it because of human respect, or because its doctrines require personal sacrifices, will not be saved. One who belongs to another church and has doubts about the truth or falsity of his own church, but takes no pains to find out the truth will not be saved. "If you believe not that I am he, you shall die in your sin."

It is not enough to belong to the Church. We must also live up to our beliefs, otherwise our membership will only work to our greater condemnation. Only those Catholics who, live according to the teachings of the Church will be saved.The Church is a guarantee of salvation to those only who obey it. Unfortunately, there are bad Catholics. We must therefore study our religion and then practice it. God has given us the grace to be members of the true Church; we must not waste that grace.

Lionel: It is not known if the above passages were there in the original Catechism are these are the views of editors of the website who support the irrational Cushingite philosophy and theology and yet call themselves traditionalists.
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1. Catholics who have committed grave sins such as murder, arson, adultery, etc., are still members of the Church. As long as a Catholic does not deny a doctrine of the Catholic faith, or is not excommunicated, he is a member of the Church.Catholics in grave sin are called dead members, for their soul dead in mortal sin. Nevertheless they remain members, and have the privilege of receiving the sacraments to wash away their sins. Christ Himself predicted that in the Church there would be bad people with the good, cockle among the wheat. Mother Church is a good mother that patiently awaits the return of her sinful children, and does not exclude them from her gifts.
2. An excommunicate is one who has been cut off from membership in the Church for some serious sin against faith. He is excluded from the sacraments, from Catholic burial, and from being prayed for in the public prayers of the Church. In order to become once more a, member of good standing in the Church, an excommunicate has to obtain the absolution of the bishop.Catholics who join Masonry, or marry before a non Catholic minister, are automatically excommunicated, if they knew the serious nature of their action.

Lionel:Note the  following is not part of the original Catechism and has been added on by the website team to justify their use of an irrational premise.Since this was done by Pope Pius XII, Cardinals Siri and Ottaviani and Archbishop Lefebvre and they choose to follow them.

NOTE: Some revisions have been made to this 1956 edition watering down the Catholic Doctrine: "Outside the Church there is no Salvation." Some clarifications need to be made. The use of the word "outside" refers to those who are in the state of Invincible Ignorance of the Church and Invincibly Ignorant of the Doctrine: "Outside the Church there is no salvation". These invincibly ignorant souls, who cooperate with all the graces God sends them are implicitly INSIDE the Catholic Church. Invincible ignorance is quite rare considering the great availability of the truths of the Catholic Faith in today's information age.(RMO) (How would you know if there is an invincible ignorance case who is saved ?)
Can they be saved who remain "outside" the Catholic Church[[not official members of the Church, but Invincibly Ignorant of the Church and obey the natural law through the use of their reason, are implicitly INSIDE the Church(RMO)] because they do not know it is the true Church? --They who remain "outside" the Catholic Church[not official members, but Invincibly Ignorant of the Church are implicitly INSIDE the Church(RMO)] through no grave fault of their own, and do not know it is the true Church, can be saved by making use of the graces which God gives them.(And we do not know any one of them in personal cases. e cannot say that there were 25 people saved in invincible ignorance last year and three this year.)
NOTE: TECHNICALLY(according to the dogma EENS defined by three Church Council s), NO ONE CAN BE SAVED WHO IS OUTSIDE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH (practically we would not be able to know any exceptions to the dogma EENS). INVINCIBLY IGNORANT SOULS, WHO COOPERATE WITH ALL THE GRACES GOD SENDS THEM, WHO ARE INVINCIBLY IGNORANT OF THE CHURCH ARE IMPLICITLY INSIDE THE CHURCH (this is a personal opinion). Honestly, in today's information age, the typical Invincibly Ignorant soul would have to be a native on a primitive island (All the natives in primitive islands who are not in the Catholic Church are on the way to Hell.All.)  Most people know the Catholic Church's basic Doctrines. After all, Protestants protest many Catholic Doctrines so they are very familiar with Catholic Doctrines.(RMO)(Are you referring to Catholic doctrines interpreted with Cushingism or Feeneyism ?)

1. God condemns no man except for grave sin. Therefore He will not condemn those who through no fault of their own are unaware of His command to belong to the True Church[which is quite RARE(RMO)], provided they serve Him faithfully according to their conscience[However they will be responsible and culpable for what they should know given the information available to them(RMO)], have a sincere desire to do His will in all things, and therefore implicitlywish to become members of His Church. They are members of the Church, in desire [and they must also be INVINCIBLY IGNORANT of the Catholic Church and the Catholic Church's Doctrine: "Outside the Church there is no salvation"(RMO)].A baptized Protestant, of Protestant parents, lives all his life a Protestant without ever having a doubt that he is in the wrong. Before death he makes an act of perfect contrition for the sins he has committed. Such a man will be saved, for he dies in the state of grace.[However this Protestant is responsible and culpable for what he should know, given the information available to him. It is unthinkable that this Protestant has never heard the Catholic Doctrine "Outside the Church there is no salvation".(RMO)]
   
2. It is possible for one that has never even heard of Jesus Christ to be saved, for God "wishes all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim. 2:4) and "Christ died for all" (2 Cor. 5: 15) . In order that such a one may be saved, it is required that he observe the natural law; with the help of God; everyone having the use of reason can do that.Whoever then obeys the natural law will be enlightened by God, at some time in his life, with the grace with which he can make an act of Divine faith. If he makes good use of this grace and firmly believes whatever God has revealed, he will receive the further graces with which he can make the acts of hope, repentance, and charity that must precede before God will bestow on his soul sanctifying grace, with which he can merit eternal life.
   
3. The fact that it is possible for those "outside" the Church to be saved[those who are not official members ( only in theory. It is not a an actual case, a defacto case) , but are INVINCIBLY IGNORANT OF THE CHURCH, which is quite RARE, (how would a human being know that it is rare ?)  are actually implicitly INSIDE the Church, for if anyone is to be saved, it will ONLY be BY and THROUGH the Catholic Church(RMO)] should not make us lose sight of the great disadvantages they are under, as compared with Catholics who live in the full light of Divine revelation. Such persons have not the infallible Church to guide them in what they are to believe and do in order to serve God. They have to live without the Sacraments, Holy Mass, and Holy Communion, and the other countless sources of grace which the Church supplies for the sanctification of its children, those professed Catholics who are members of the body of the visible Church.These disadvantages should make us Catholics realize more fully the many reasons we have for humbly thanking God for the priceless blessings we have received without any claim or merit of our own. They should also spur us on to give Him a more worthy service, and help spread our Faith.   

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-Lionel Andrades

http://www.sacredheart-op.org/My%20Catholic%20faith/My%20Catholic%20Info.htm#Salvation%20and%20the%20Catholic%20Church

The same mistake for over 50 years by senior traditionalists

-Lionel Andrades

Hundreds of Argentinean doctors join massive march against abortion

BUENOS AIRES, Argentina, August 2, 2018 (LifeSiteNews) — Not all of Argentina’s doctors fancy the thought of killing unborn babies.

Hundreds of pro-life Argentinian doctors have taken to the streets to witness against the evil of abortion in the run-up to the Senate’s vote on a bill that would legalize the procedure.

If passed into law, the measure will endanger the lives of all unborn children up to 14 weeks’ gestation. In addition, it will allow for the killing of disabled children, children who were conceived in rape, and children who endanger the life of their mothers, either physically or psychologically, until birth. Currently, it is legal abort babies conceived in rape or who present a physical threat to their mother’s health, but only up to 14 weeks’ gestation.

Writing for the Associated Press, journalist Almudena Calatrava reported that some of the pro-life doctors have carried “fetus-shaped dolls” and signs saying “I’m a doctor, not a murderer.” At a recent protest, she wrote, “they laid white medical coats on the ground outside the presidential palace.”

These doctors represent only a tiny number of pro-life demonstrators in Argentina. During a nationwide pro-life rally in March, 50,000 people marched for life in capital city Buenos Aires. Crowds of up to 20,000 gathered in other towns. One participant tweeted that there were “literally millions (of pro-life marchers) throughout the country.”

Medical associations in Pope Francis’ homeland are divided on the abortion issue. The Argentina Medical Association wants legalized abortion, purportedly to discourage women from seeking illegal abortions. Argentina’s National Academy of Medicine, however, believes in the right to life of the unborn child and the right of medical personnel to refuse to commit abortions.

In a 2011 statement, the Academia Nacional de Medicina (ANM) asserted, “Nothing good come from society when death is chosen as a solution.” It also underscored its support of professionals who refuse, for ethical or religious reasons, to end unborn human life.

The ethical society’s then-president, Juan M. Ghirlanda, who signed the document, stated that Argentina’s public health system needs proposals that protect both the life of a pregnant woman and the life of her unborn child. Legalizing abortions and forcing doctors to perform them are not acceptable solution to the nation’s increasing numbers of back-alley abortions.

"The ANM considers that the unborn child, scientifically and biologically, is a human being whose existence begins at the moment of conception," the document asserted.

It also cited the Hippocratic Oath, which Argentinian doctors pledge. In the original Oath, doctors vowed, “I will use treatment to help the sick according to my ability and judgment, but never with a view to injury and wrong-doing. Neither will I administer a poison to anybody when asked to do so, nor will I suggest such a course. Similarly, I will not give to a woman a pessary to cause abortion.”

The ANM document concluded, "Medical thought based on Hippocratic ethics has defended human life as an inalienable right from conception, so the National Academy of Medicine calls on all doctors in the country to maintain fidelity to (that which) they undertook under oath. "

In addition, Argentina’s Federation of Gynecology and Obstetrics Societies has complained that it wasn’t consulted on the bill, and that doctors who refuse to commit abortions will be penalized. Conscientious objectors would have to register and therefore be blacklisted by hospitals interested in hiring only potential abortionists.  

Another worry is the bill’s demand that a baby be aborted within five days of his or her mother’s request. Gynecologists state that this could lead to prosecution of doctors who don’t want to perform the abortion on grounds of the mother’s safety, or when it is impossible to find a willing physician that quickly.

Finally, there is the specter of rampant late-term abortions, and abortions performed merely because the mother finds her pregnancy stressful or embarrassing.  

Ernesto Beruti, chief of Obstetrics at Austral University Hospital in Buenos Aires, told Calatrava that he was willing to go to jail rather than commit abortion.

“Even if the law is passed, I’m not going to eliminate the life of a human being,” he said. “The most important right is the right to live.”

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/argentine-doctors-stand-firmly-for-life-in-protests-ahead-of-senate-abortio

Traditionalists are using a false premise to create heresy (Graphics)

 

AUGUST 6, 2018

Whispers of Restoration a group of anonymous traditionalists,heretics and schismatics, who interpret Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church, with a false premise, and so create a rupture with the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS), the Syllabus of Errors and past Catechisms

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2018/08/the-team-at-whispers-of-restoration-for.html

 AUGUST 6, 2018

Doesn't Louie see his heresy somewhere in all this?

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2018/08/doesnt-louie-see-his-heresy-somewhere.html

-Lionel Andrades

 AUGUST 6, 2018

Questions for the traditionalists

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2018/08/questions-for-traditioinalists.html

Tommy Robinson is HOME!

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