Thursday, December 1, 2011

INDIVIDUAL PROTESTANTS DO GO TO HELL UNLESS THEY CONVERT INTO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

Individual Protestants do go to Hell and cannot go to Heaven unless they convert into the Catholic Church is the teaching of the Church.

On Real Catholic TV Michael Vorris says “Individual Protestants (0.32).go to Hell and cannot go to Heaven this is not what we are saying. I do not know if I am going to Heaven or Hell. How do I know the destiny of anyone else. Protestantism is a heresy.'
 We know all individual Protestants are oriented to Hell (Cantate Domino, Council of Florence).Vatican Council II has the same teaching.

Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door.-Ad Gentes 7(emphasis added)

The Church teaches that all need Catholic Faith and the baptism of water- all Protestants.

So all Protestants on earth de facto need to enter the Church to avoid Hell.

The Church also teaches that there can be some non Catholics who can be saved in invincible ignorance. These cases are unknown to us on earth. It is only God who can decide who is in invincible ignorance. So this teaching is not an exception to the dogma or Ad Gentes 7.
All non Catholics, Protestants included need to convert into the Church to avoid Hell.
-Lionel Andrades

GAPS IN THE WRITING OF MONS. JOSEPH FENTON ?

Mons. Fenton would like to believe that Cantate Domino refers to implicit baptism of desire since he implies that the baptism of desire is known and visible to us.I write this with reference to a quote on this blog by Bro.Anthony T.O.R. He also assumed that the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 referred to explicit baptism of desire as did the Archbishop of Boston.


He never pointed out in his writings that the Letter of the Holy Office supported Fr. Leonard Feeney on doctrine. He could not, since he assumed that those who are saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire are known to us.The Archbishop said so and he assumes so did the Letter of the Holy Office 1949.

So he is trying to accommodate this point in Cantate Domino even though the dogma says every one needs to convert into the Church.

In general Mons. Fenton affirms the dogma and says every one needs to enter the Church but he then implies there are visible exceptions with the baptism of desire and invincible ignorance.Theologically he defended the dogma well against errors of his time in the USA.

The baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance was known at the time of Cantate Domino and it was not assumed to be an exception to the dogma.

The Letter of the Holy Office 1949 does not imply that those who do not know about Jesus and the Church are exceptions to the dogma. This was the false assumption of the Archbishop of Boston Richard Cushing- and Mons. Joseph Fenton ? The Letter does not support Mons.Fenton here.

The Letter is not a criticism of Fr.Leonard Feeney since he was not saying that 'only those who know' can be saved. He was affirming the dogma which says all people need to convert into the Church and not just 'those who know'.(Cantate Domino, Council of Florence etc).

Those who are saved with the baptism of desire are not exceptions to the dogma. There is no visible baptism of desire.The baptism of desire would have to be visible and explicit to be an exception to the dogmatic teaching. So this passage cannot be held against Fr.Leonard Feeney. Mons. Fenton suggests that there was salvation outside the church and cited those with the baptism of desire. Yes but these cases are unknown to us. He implies that these cases are known so are exceptions to the dogma. The Society of St.Pius X makes the sane error. They say every one needs to enter the Church and they also claim that there are known exceptions. Hence they could not say that all those present at Assisi III are oriented to Hell. How could they do so? Since for them there could be some known exceptions!!!

It was Cardinal Richard Cushing who assumed that the baptism of desire was an exception to the dogma. He believed that those saved in invincible ignorance are exceptions to the dogma. Fr.Feeney said the contrary.
Where does Mons. Fenton say that the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 mentioned ‘the dogma’, ‘the infallible statement’ and the dogma indicates all non Catholics in Boston need to convert into the Church to avoid Hell? Where did he say that the Letter of the Holy Office agrees with Fr. Leonard Feeney on doctrine?

 Where does Mons. Fenton mention that there is a dejure-defacto pattern in magisterial texts ? Did he notice it?


Did Mons. Fenton use a dejure-defacto analysis of magisterial texts including the Letter of the Holy Office ?


 Did he mention the Principle of Non Contradiction when interpreting the Letter of the Holy Office and Vatican Council II ?


 Did he discuss how could Fr. Leonard Feeney be in heresy for making the same statements as the popes and saints ?


 Did he ever consider that Cardinal Richard Cushing, the Archbishop of Boston and the Jesuits at Boston College were in heresy for suggesting that there was an explicitly known baptism of desire and it contradicted an ‘infallible statement’ ?


 Did he ever discuss a visible baptism of desire being an exception to a defined dogma ?


Without the defacto-dejure analysis will there not be ambiguity in his writings ?
-Lionel Andrades

Photo of Msgr.Joseph Clifford Fenton from the blog WHOISLIKEUNTOGOD

CATHOLIC VOCATIONS IN USA: CANDIDATES EXPECTED FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD

Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary receive a postulant

The religious community Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary have received a postulant. A young candidate with a religious vocation has joined the community in the USA which is recognised by the Catholic Church. The young lady is fortunate. Unlike candidates in England and Australia she will not have to fake it and say that the baptism of desire is visible to us. Neither will religious Superiors expect her to claim that Fr. Leonard Feeney was excommunicated for holding the same view as the popes, saints and the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. Nor will she have to deny that the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 was a criticism of the Archbishop of Boston.

Do you have a vocation to the religious life? Don’t join a community which rejects an ex cathedra dogma
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/07/do-you-have-vocation-to-religious-life.html

CANDIDATES WITH A RELIGIOUS VOCATION IN ENGLAND HAVE TO ACCEPT THAT THE BAPTISM OF DESIRE IS VISIBLE TO THEM

-Lionel Andrades


BROTHER ANDRE MARIE AVAILABLE FOR TALKS ON EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS







UK BISHOPS AGREE WITH SOUTHWARK VOCATION REPORT ? : BAPTISM OF DESIRE CASES VISIBLE




USCCB, CCBEW, CATHOLIC ANSWERS, CUF IMPLY POPE PIUS XII SUGGESTED IN THE LETTER OF THE HOLY OFFICE THAT THE BAPTISM OF DESIRE WAS AN EXCEPTION TO THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/11/usccb-ccbew-catholic-answers-cuf-imply.html#links


CONFUSION OVER THE LETTER OF THE HOLY OFFICE 1949
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/11/confusion-over-letter-of-holy-office.html



DID THE CARDINAL WHO ISSUED THE LETTER OF THE HOLY OFFICE 1949 ASSUME THAT THE BAPTISM OF DESIRE WAS VISIBLE AND AN EXCEPTION TO THE DOGMA ?
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/11/did-cardinal-who-issued-letter-of-holy.html



ECCLESSIOLOGY OF ENGLISH BISHOPS HIT BY TWO ERRORS 1) VISIBLE BAPTISM OF DESIRE 2) FR.LEONARD FEENEY EXCOMMUNICATED FOR THE SAME VIEW AS POPES, SAINTS AND DOGMA OUTSIDE THE CHURCH THERE IS NO SALVATION
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/11/ecclessiology-of-english-bishops-hit-by.html



CATHOLIC BISHOPS CONFERENCE OF ENGLAND AND WALES SAYS THOSE SAVED WITH THE BAPTISM OF DESIRE, INVINCIBLE IGNORANCE ARE VISIBLE TO US
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/11/catholic-bishops-conference-of-england.html



ECUMENISM OF THE ENGLISH BISHOPS CONTRARY TO VATICAN COUNCIL II
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/11/ecumenism-of-english-bishops-contrary.html#links


CATHOLIC LAY PROFESSOR AT UNIVERSITA EUROPA DI ROMA AFFIRMS DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/10/catholic-lay-professor-at-universita.html


LEGIONARY OF CHRIST PRIEST FR.RAFAEL PASCUAL AFFIRMS CANTATE DOMINO, COUNCIL OF FLORENCE
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/10/legionary-of-christ-priest-frrafael.html


FR.TULLIO ROTONDO AFFIRMS CANTATE DOMINO, COUNCIL OF FLORENCE ON EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/08/frtullio-rotondo-affirms-cantate-domino.html#links

CANTATE DOMINO, COUNCIL OF FLORENCE ON EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS IS DE FIDE AND NOT CONTRADICTED BY VATICAN COUNCIL II- Fr. Nevus Marcello O.P
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/07/cantate-domino-council-of-florence-on.html



BRAZILIAN PRIEST SAYS VATICAN COUNCIL II DOES NOT CONTRADICT DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/07/brazilian-priest-says-vatican-council.html#links


CATHOLIC PRIESTS IN ROME AGREE WITH FR.LEONARD FEENEY: THERE IS NO BAPTISM OF DESIRE THAT WE CAN KNOW OF
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/08/catholic-priests-in-rome-agree-with.html#links


DAPHNE MCLEOD’S COMMENT SHOULD BE A WAKE UP CALL FOR SSPX, TRADITIONALISTS AND ENGLISH BISHOPS
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/10/daphne-mcleods-comment-should-be-wake.html#links
  

Photo from the website of St. Benedict Abbey,252 Still River Rd.Still River, MA 01467 978-456-3221mailto:abbey@abbey.org