Traditionis Custode uses the false premise. Catholics are not obliged to follow it. It is immoral and unethical.This is ecclesial division

 

Pope Francis approves further restrictions on Latin Mass to ensure adherence to Vatican II

Dec 18, 2021

by Christopher White National Catholic Reporter

ROME — Pope Francis has approved further clarifications regarding restrictions on the traditional Latin Mass in an effort to ensure that liturgical reform is "irreversible" and that liturgical celebrations adhere to the changes made after the Second Vatican Council. 

Lionel: There can be two interpretations of Vatican Council II one in which LG 8, LG 14, LG 16 etc can refer to visible cases in the present times of non Catholics saved outside the Church without faith and the baptism of water or 2) LG 8, LG 14, LG 16 could refer to hypothetical and speculative cases of non Catholics saved outside the Church in the present times.So there are two different premise 1) Visible cases are objective examples of salvation outside the Church and so practical exceptions for extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS), the Athanasius Creed and the Syllabus of Errors 2) Invisible cases are not practical exceptions for EENS etc, they are 'zero cases' in our reality. So the past ecclesiocentrism of the Church is not contradicted.

The 'reforms' of Vatican Council II come with the irrational premise. LG 8, LG 14, LG 16 etc are assumed to be objective examples of salvation and so are a break with Tradition and this opens the possible for a New Theology, a New Ecumenism etc.

Traditionis Custode uses the false premise. Catholics are not obliged to follow it. It is immoral and unethical.

_______________________

Roche, in an introduction to the new text, said that each norm has the "sole purpose of preserving the gift of ecclesial communion" with the pope.

Lionel: How can there be ecclesial communion when a False Premise is used to interpret Magisterial Documents including the Creeds ? This is not Catholic. It is not ethical too. Why should Catholics interpret Vatican Council II to create a false rupture with Tradition when this rupture is not there when the  Rational Premise is used ?

This is not ecclesial communion but ecclesial division.

____________________

In explaining his original decision to reimpose restrictions on the traditional Latin Mass earlier this year, Francis lamented that it had become a source of division in the church. 

Lionel: Vatican Council II interpreted with the False Premise causes the division.

The baptism of desire, baptism of blood and invincible ignorance interpeted with the False Premise causes  division with the past Magisterium.

The Nicene and Apostles Creed interpreted with the same False Premise causes division.

Why is the Latin Mass being blamed.

There can be the Novus Ordo Mass in which the priest chooses to interpret Vatican Council II and the Creeds and Catechisms with the Rational Premise. He would be supporting the exclusivist ecclesiology of the Traditional Latin Mass of the 12th to 16th century.

__________________

Since then, the decree has become a lightning rod for a vocal minority group of Catholics who still favor the traditional Latin Mass, many of whom also have expressed skepticism or even outright rejection of the reforms of Vatican II and of the legitimacy of Francis.

Lionel: Vatican Council II interpreted with the False Premise has to be rejected by all Catholics. It is immoral. This is not an issue only for those who offer/ attend Holy Mass in Latin. Even those Catholics who go for Holy Mass in the vernacular should rreject Vatican Council II interpreted with the False Premise and accept the Council when it is interpreted with a Rational Premise.

_______________________

Among the reforms of Vatican II was the approval of the translation of the liturgy into the vernacular, in an effort to make the Mass more accessible and involve greater participation of the laity. In 2007, Pope Benedict XVI relaxed restrictions on the Latin Mass in an effort to foster greater unity with breakaway Catholic groups. 

Lionel: Pope Benedict was interpreting Vatican Council II with the False Premise and expected all Catholics to accept the Council with the error.We now know that the Council can be interpreted with the Rational Premise by the Ecclesia Dei communities. Pope Benedict should correct his error and apologise, especially, to the Society of St. Pius X. He said that the issue was doctrinal and so the SSPX could not be given canonical recognition. He wanted them to choose the false intepretation of the Council and then they would be approved. 

The same mistake Pope Francis is making with Traditionis Custode.

_____________________

In an interview last month, Roche said that after years of trying to offer concessions, such as through the continued use of the old Mass, those efforts have "not entirely been successful" and it is time to "go back" to the principles of the Second Vatican Council.

Lionel : He means with 'the principles of the Second Vatican Council II' created with a False Premise, Inference and Non Traditional conclusion there will be ' a new Magisterium'. This is heresy and schism and it is official.

___________________

He reiterated that message in his introduction to the new responses, saying that he was saddened that participation in Mass, and in particular, Holy Communion, has become "a cause for division." 

"It is the duty of the Bishops," he added, "to safeguard communion."

Lionel: Precisely. They must interpret Vatican Council II only with the Rational Premise. This is their moral obligation. Then the Eucharist will not be given to the divorced and remarried in the name of a liberal and irrational interpretation of Vatican Council II.

The Eucharist will not be given to non Catholics becuase there is alleged salvation outside the Church with Vatican Council II interpreted with the Irrational Premise.

Also inter-faith marriages will  still be considered a mortal sin and adultary since the non Catholic spouse would be outside the Church and Vatican Council II interpreted rationally would support the past ecclesiocentrism which says outside the Churcht there is no salvation.

So it is the popes who are maintaing division on the Eucharist by interpreting the Council in an unethical way.

_______________________

In concluding his introduction to the newly published liturgy clarifications, Roche said that pastors "must not lend ourselves to sterile polemics, capable only of creating division, in which the ritual itself is often exploited by ideological viewpoints."

Lionel : Vatican Council II is ideological when a False Irrationality has to be used to interpret the Council and create a false break with the past ecclesiocentrism of the Catholic Church. This is poltical. It is approved by the Left.-Lionel Andrades

Don Pietro Leone is still not responding to the points raised on this blog. They are too hot for him : Traditionis Custode uses his interpretation of Vatican Council II with the False Premise

 

NOVEMBER 23, 2021

Don Pietro Leone is still not responding to the points raised on this blog. They are too hot for him.

‘The Council and the Eclipse of God’ Installment XIX: The Council’s Failure to Condemn the Moral Evil of Communism - by Don Pietro Leone

 https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2021/11/the-council-and-eclipse-of-god.html

 https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2021/11/the-council-and-eclipse-of-god.html

APRIL 7, 2021

Since Don Pietro Leone on Rorate Caeili interprets Vatican Council II like Bishop Robert Barron and the liberals, i.e with the false premise, it indicates that he also interprets the Nicene and Apostles Creed , irrationally, heretically and schismatically : he is writing another Cushingite book on Vatican Council II

 

Don Pietro Leone re: The Council and the Eclipse of God

 A Note 

At the suggestion of Don Pietro, Rorate is suspending the installments of his book on the Council for 2 weeks, so that readers may better devote themselves to the meditation and the celebration of the Passion, Death and Resurrection of Our Blessed Lord.   He assures you all of his heartfelt prayers in this holy and grace-filled liturgical season.              F.R.

https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2021/03/don-pietro-leone-re-council-and-eclipse.html

Since Don Pietro Leone on Rorate Caeili interprets Vatican Council II like Bishop Robert Barron and the liberals, i.e with the false premise, it indicates that he also interprets the Nicene and Apostles Creed , irrationally, heretically and schismatically. - Lionel Andrades

MARCH 12, 2021

For a Cushingite Don Pietro Leone Lumen Gentium 8 etc would be known non Catholics saved outside the Church in 2014-2021.So he would conclude that it is the fault of Vatican Council II

 From the webblog Rorate Caeii

Don Pietro Leone: The Council and the Eclipse of God – PART V

 

                                                          THE CHURCH

     

                            I   THE CHURCH CONSIDERED IN HERSELF

After a brief introduction to expound Catholic teaching concerning the Church in Herself, we shall see how the Council opposes this teaching.

 

 

Introduction

 

In this introduction we shall briefly expound the Church’s:

 

a)     Nature;

b)    End, and Means for Attaining the End;

c)     Constitution;

d)    Properties;

e)     Necessity.

https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2021/03/don-pietro-leone-council-and-eclipse-of_11.html#more

Lionel: Don Pietro Leone is a Cushingite Lefebvrist. He interprets Vatican Council II like the liberals. He uses the false premise.

He says outside the Church there is no salvation but means that the baptism of desire and invincible ignorance are exceptions. So really outside the Church there is salvation.

In this article he has not mentioned the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS) defined by three Church Councils.

He cannot do so. He is a Cushingite and so invisble cases are objective exceptions to EENS. So Vatican Council II would contradict EENS for him. 

This is typical of the followers of Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre who attend/offer the Latin Mass with the new ecclesiology,and reject the past exclusivist ecclesiology of the Catholic Church.

Without the false premise LG 8, LG 14, LG 16 etc are not practical exceptions to Ad Gentes 7 which says all need faith and baptism for salvation.

For a Cushingite like Don Piert Leone LG 8 etc would be interpreted as being known non Catholics, objectively visible people saved outside the Church. So they would contradict the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and Don Leone would conclude that it is the fault of Vatican Council II.-Lionel Andrades

________________________

FRIDAY, MARCH 14, 2014

How to Regard Vatican II
a special essay by Don Pietro Leone

Many of our readers are aware of the work of Don Pietro Leone (for instance, The Roman Rite: Old and New, on the Traditional Mass and the many problems of the new liturgy). Don Pietro Leone is the pen name of a priest who celebrates the traditional Mass in full and peaceful communion with his Ordinary somewhere in that great cradle of civilization known as Italy.

In this special essay, reflecting the personal position of the author and translated by our contributor Francesca Romana, the reverend Father tries to explain what is the best way to regard the Second Vatican Council, 50 years later and with the full knowledge of all its fruits and consequences, willed or unintentional...

The obscure texts are ambiguous between a non-Catholic sense which is primary, and a Catholic sense which is secondary. In the primary sense they represent a rupture with Tradition and the Faith, whereas in the secondary sense they represent a line of continuity with Tradition and the Faith.

http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/

 

Rorate Caeili has presented an analysis of Vatican Council II by Don Pietro Leone who did not know that Lumen Gentium 16 etc is invisible for us. It does not refer to those saved in invincible ignorance as being visible in the flesh. It does not state that they can be seen with the naked eye.So LG 16 is not an exception to Tradition. It is with this simple error that Don Leone  has analysed Vatican Council II.

 

The dead for us, saved in invincible ignorance  Don Leone assumes is a known exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and the rest of Tradition. So these cases of persons dead and  and visible to Don Leone are known exceptions to all needing to enter the Church for salvation. This becomes a  break with the Syllabus of Errors etc.

 

This is the typical SSPX error. They were led into this error when they assumed that the baptism of desire is a known exception to the  traditional interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, according to the saints and popes.

 

Since Don Leone assumes LG 16 is explicit for us and not implicit for us the texts of Vatican Council II emerge 'obscure' (surely AG 7 will contradict LG 16). They are 'ambigous'.Since AG 7 affirms the dogma on exclusive salvation while LG 16 (explicit for Don Leone) contradicts the dogma.
 

LG 16 (explicit for us) 'represent a rupture with Tradition and the Faith' while LG 16 (invisible for us and not an exception to the dogma on salvation) 'represent a line of continuity with Tradition and the Faith.'

-Lionel Andrades

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/search?q=Don+Pietro+Leone

SATURDAY, MARCH 13, 2021

Don Pietro Leone interprets Vatican Council II irrationally like Bishop Barron and the liberals and indicates that he also interprets the Nicene and Apostles Creed , irrationally, heretically and schismatically

Don Pietro Leone interprets Vatican Council II irrationally like Bishop Barron and the liberals and indicates that he also interprets the Nicene and Apostles Creed , irrationally, heretically and schismatically.

Much of what Don Leone has written on Vatican Council II (Don Pietro Leone: The Council and the Eclipse of God – PART V) on Rorate Caeil is abstract. The Council-text does not contradict his statements.

For him the Council contradicts Tradition and in particular exclusive salvation, since he uses a false premise. He misinterprets LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc as being exceptions to Feeneyirte extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS). Since they are practical exceptions for him he implies that they are physically  visible cases. Otherwise they could not be exceptions. 

There are two interpretations of Vatican Council II, one rational and the other irrational and Don Leone interprets Vatican Council II like the liberals and Pope Benedict. This is the political version of the Council approved also by Una Voce International and the Latin Mass societies and the liberals in general.

Since 2014 Rorate Caeili and Don Leone have been posting reports on Vatican Council II without responding to objections.

There is no unity with them on the Creeds, since there is no unity on Vatican Council II, and since, going further back, there is no unity on the baptism of desire, invincible ignorance and extra ecclesiam nulla salus according to the Letter of the Holy Office 1949(LOHO).They follow the objective error of LOHO. It is approved by the Left and Pope Francis even though it violates the Principle of Non Contradiction. - Lionel Andrades

https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2021/03/don-pietro-leone-council-and-eclipse-of_11.html

MARCH 13, 2021

Don Leone rejects the conclusion of his interpretation of Vatican Council II with a false premise, while Bishop Barron accepts it. Both agree that the Council is a rupture with Tradition. Both do not mention the false premise. I do not use the false premise. So for me the Council is not a rupture with Tradition

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2021/03/don-leone-rejects-conclusion-of-his.html

MARCH 12, 2021

How does don Pietro Leone interpret the Apostles Creed at Holy Mass ?

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2021/03/how-does-don-pietro-leone-interpret.html

 MARCH 12, 2021

For a Cushingite Don Pietro Leone Lumen Gentium 8 etc would be known non Catholics saved outside the Church in 2014-2021.So he would conclude that it is the fault of Vatican Council II

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2021/03/for-cushingite-like-don-piert-leone-lg.html

FRIDAY, MARCH 14, 2014

How to Regard Vatican II
a special essay by Don Pietro Leone

Many of our readers are aware of the work of Don Pietro Leone (for instance, The Roman Rite: Old and New, on the Traditional Mass and the many problems of the new liturgy). Don Pietro Leone is the pen name of a priest who celebrates the traditional Mass in full and peaceful communion with his Ordinary somewhere in that great cradle of civilization known as Italy.

In this special essay, reflecting the personal position of the author and translated by our contributor Francesca Romana, the reverend Father tries to explain what is the best way to regard the Second Vatican Council, 50 years later and with the full knowledge of all its fruits and consequences, willed or unintentional...

The obscure texts are ambiguous between a non-Catholic sense which is primary, and a Catholic sense which is secondary. In the primary sense they represent a rupture with Tradition and the Faith, whereas in the secondary sense they represent a line of continuity with Tradition and the Faith.

http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/

 

Rorate Caeili has presented an analysis of Vatican Council II by Don Pietro Leone who did not know that Lumen Gentium 16 etc is invisible for us. It does not refer to those saved in invincible ignorance as being visible in the flesh. It does not state that they can be seen with the naked eye.So LG 16 is not an exception to Tradition. It is with this simple error that Don Leone  has analysed Vatican Council II.

 

The dead for us, saved in invincible ignorance  Don Leone assumes is a known exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and the rest of Tradition. So these cases of persons dead and  and visible to Don Leone are known exceptions to all needing to enter the Church for salvation. This becomes a  break with the Syllabus of Errors etc.

 

This is the typical SSPX error. They were led into this error when they assumed that the baptism of desire is a known exception to the  traditional interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, according to the saints and popes.

 

Since Don Leone assumes LG 16 is explicit for us and not implicit for us the texts of Vatican Council II emerge 'obscure' (surely AG 7 will contradict LG 16). They are 'ambigous'.Since AG 7 affirms the dogma on exclusive salvation while LG 16 (explicit for Don Leone) contradicts the dogma.
 

LG 16 (explicit for us) 'represent a rupture with Tradition and the Faith' while LG 16 (invisible for us and not an exception to the dogma on salvation) 'represent a line of continuity with Tradition and the Faith.'

-Lionel Andrades

 

Photo : A representative image of the consequences of Vatican II in the web encyclopedia Wikipedia

FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 26, 2021

Don Pietro Leone and Rorate Caeili to produce a book on Vatican Council II intrerpreted with the false premise

Don Pietro Leone is producing another book on Vatican Council II which will be a waste of time, since he does not acknowledge that it is the false premise which creates a rupture with Tradition and when the false premise is avoided Vatican Council II supports Tradition.

So Unitatis Redintigratio 3 would not contradict the past ecumenism of return since UR 3 refers only to a hypothetical and theoretical case of a Christian saved in 'imperfect communion with the Church'.

But this was not known to Bishop Bernard Fellay so UR 3 was an exception to the past ecumenism for him and he has expressed this error on line in a Letter to Friends and Benefactors.

This is like someone choosing to write a book on Fr. Leonard Feeney while not knowing that the baptism of desire and invincible ignorance never ever were practical exceptions  to Feeneyite EENS. There can be no objective exceptions in the present time since if any one was saved outside the Church, without faith and baptism, he or she would only be known to God.It would be an invisible case for us human beings.

What a waste of time it would be reading Don Leone's book. He has begun in ignorance at the onset.

Don Leone does not know that there is nothing in the entire text of Unitatis Redintigratio( Decree on Ecumenism) or Lumen Gentium  or Nostra Aetate to contradict the past ecclesiology of the Catholic Church.So at least for me, there is no change in the pre and post Conciliar Church's ecclesiology.-Lionel Andrades

Don Pietro Leone: The Council and the Eclipse of God Part III

https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2021/02/don-pietro-leone-council-and-eclipse-of.html

THURSDAY, JANUARY 7, 2016

The roots of the new ecumenism are still unknown to Don Pietro Leone and Rorate Caeili

 Furthermore, the Church teaches that only the Catholic Faith (along with Baptism) unites us to this God, and that therefore the Catholic Faith is also the only religion, since ‘religion’ means nothing other than that spiritual system which binds us (ligat in Latin) to God.-  ECUMENISM- By Don Pietro Leone  Rorate Caeili
http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2016/01/ecumenism-essay-on-ecumenism-by-don.html

Lionel :

' the Church teaches that only the Catholic Faith (along with Baptism) unites us to this God, and that therefore the Catholic Faith is also the only religion,...'

The Society of St. Pius X, Rorate Caeili and correspondents and Pope Francis have accepted that : 
Therefore, that one may obtain eternal salvation, it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member, but it is necessary that at least he be united to her by desire and longing.- Letter of the Holy Office 1949.

This is the basis of the new theology, the new ecumenism.

This is the only type of union that the Catholic Church has the mandate to establish with others, since only this type of union can effect their spiritual good in the ultimate sense of the word, that is to say their salvation. The union sought by Ecumenism, on the other hand, is simply a partial union, inasmuch as one or more of these three elements are missing. For this reason it does not have the power to redeem.-Don Pietro Leone

Lionel:

This is the only type of union that the Catholic Church has the mandate to establish with others, since only this type of union can effect their spiritual good in the ultimate sense of the word, that is to say their salvation...

But Don Leone has accepted the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 which infers there is another type of a union which is that of a person saved without the baptism of water in the Catholic Church. So there is an exception to the the ordinary way.There is salvation outside the Church according the traditionalists.So here we have the seeds of the new ecumenism and inter religious dialogue.

The spiritual union sought by Ecumenism is not redeeming, then. But typically it is not supernatural either, as Ecumenism typically reduces Catholicism to the Faith (understood simply as an assortment of different beliefs) and, in so doing, ignores the sacraments, which are the necessary means for uniting us to God here on earth and in Heaven.

Lionel:

and, in so doing, ignores the sacraments, which are the necessary means for uniting us to God here on earth and in Heaven.

' it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member', so not every one needs the sacraments for salvation. There are exceptions.,

What is remarkable about ecumenical union is that it prescinds from objective Truth. This however is irrational, for in order to enter into relations with other Christian confessions or other Religions in a rational, realistic way, we must clearly take into consideration the whole Truth and not just a part of it: not only common beliefs and ideals but also doctrinal differences

Lionel:

There is no more objective Truth. Since the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus as it was interpreted for centuries has been changed. It was always held that there are no exceptions to the dogma( Feeneyism) and now it is being taught that there are known exceptions to the dogma (Cushingism).

It is said the baptism of desire is an exception when there are no known cases of the baptism of desire in the present times or past times.We cannot physically see or know any such case.

Then it is said that the saints mention the baptism of desire and so it is an exception to the dogma EENS when there is not a single saint who says that the baptism of desire is explicit and so is an exception to the dogma. Invisible for us baptism of desire is not relevant or an exception to the dogma.

So where is the proof for Cushingism which has  got rid of the dogma EENS and created a new theology which is the basis of the new ecumenism? 

There is so much of irrelevant theology mentioned in the Letter of the Holy Office 1949. It is all irrelevant and non applicable since there are no known cases of the baptism of desire.So the baptism of desire can never be an exception to the dogma EENS and the old ecclesiology.

This sentimentality made its first official appearance in the Church in the texts of the Second Vatican Council, in their soft and conciliatory language and attitudes towards other religions and above all towards the contemporary world, and in a new ethical doctrine, that the primary end of marriage is ‘love’. 

Lionel:

The error was blatant in the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 when it was supported by the Magisterium in Rome. Why was the baptism of desire and blood and being saved in invincible ignorance mentioned in Vatican Council II ? They are irrelevant to the orthodox passages in Ad Gentes 7 and Lumen Gentium 14 which support the strict interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

We can still interpret the baptism of desire and blood and being saved in invincible ignorance as referring to possibilities, theoretical cases known only to God. So they re not exceptions to Ad Gentes 7 which says all need faith and baptism for salvation. They are also not exception to the Feeneyite version of the dogma, the traditional interpretation of St. Robert Bellarmine and the Church Councils ( Cantate Domino, Council of Florence 1441).

 8)  He who denies the whole Faith, or the nucleus of the Faith, falls into apostasy.

Lionel:

Agreed. The Letter issued by Cardinal Francesco Marchetti Selvaggiani, accepted by the Church, liberals and traditionalists, is irrational, non traditional and heretical.

-Lionel Andrades

SUNDAY, FEBRUARY 28, 2021

Don Pietro Leone ( Rorate Caeili) interpret Vatican Council II superficially and then they write books on the Council

 

Don Pietro Leone ( Rorate Caeili) interprets Vatican Council II superficially and then they write books on the Council. - Lionel Andrades

https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2021/02/don-pietro-leone-council-and-eclipse-of.html

SATURDAY, MARCH 13, 2021

Like Don Pietro Leone, Peter and Michael Dimond interpret Vatican Council II with a false premise even after being informed and so they would also be doing the same with the Apostles and Nicene Creed .This would be a mortal sin according to their traditional values

   

Peter and Michael Dimond interpret Vatican Council II with a false premise even after being informed and so they would also be doing the same with the Apostles and Nicene Creed .This would be a mortal sin according to their traditional values. - Lionel Andrades

MARCH 12, 2021

How does don Pietro Leone interpret the Apostles Creed at Holy Mass ?

 How does Rorate Caeili and Don Pietro interpret the Apostles Creed at Holy Mass ?

There are two options, one rational and the other irrational, one traditional and the other non traditional, one heretical and the other non heretical, one schismatic and the other not a rupture with the past Magisterium of the Catholic Church. Most Catholics choose the irrational version which is not prohibited by the popes, cardinals and bishops.

1. Do you say in church, at Holy Mass when the Creed is prayed, " I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints" and mean that the Holy Spirit guides the Church today to teach that outside the Catholic Church there is salvation, known salvation, there are visible non Catholics saved without faith and the baptism of water and so there is no communion with the saints on extra ecclesiam nulla salus, the Athanasius Creed etc  ? 

Or,

2. Do you say in church at Mass , "I beleive in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints" and then mean that the Holy Spirit guides the Church today to teach that outside the Church there is no known salvation, there are no physically visible non Catholics in 2021 saved without Catholic faith and the baptism of water in the Catholic Church and so there is  communion with the saints- Francis of Assisi, Ignatius of Loyola, Francis Xavier, Catherine of Siena, Maximillian Kolbe etc - on extra ecclesiam nulla salus( with no exceptions, like in the 16th century) the Athanasius Creed which says all need to be Catholic for salvation, the Catechism of Pope Pius X ( 24Q, 27Q), the Syllabus of Errors of Pope Pius IX ( ecumenism of return), Quas Primas o Pope Pius XI on the Proclamation of the Social Reign of Christ the King in all political legislation etc ?

What are your answers to these three questions?

 1. Do you affirm the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS) with no exceptions ? Can I quote you ?

2.There are  no physically visible cases of the baptism of desire and invincible ignorance. We cannot see them physically. Do you agree with me, there are no visible cases in 2021? Can I quote you?

3.If the popes, cardinals and bishops are interpreting Magisterial documents with a false premise to create an objective error it still is a violation of Aristotle's Principle of Non Contradiction. There is no exemption for rank or status. Do you agree ?

For further clarification : three more questions

1) Do we personally know of any dead person now in Heaven saved in invincible ignorance, a good conscience (LG 16) etc,can we physically see them, in 2021 ?

2) Since we do not know any of these cases, in real life, they are not visible to us, there are no known exceptions to the literal interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, or Ad Gentes 7 which states 'all' need 'faith and baptism' for salvation ?

3) So are LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc practical exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus ?

Not for me. -Lionel Andrades

MARCH 12, 2021

For a Cushingite Don Pietro Leone Lumen Gentium 8 etc would be known non Catholics saved outside the Church in 2014-2021.So he would conclude that it is the fault of Vatican Council II

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2021/03/for-cushingite-like-don-piert-leone-lg.html