There is no liturgy which is 'staid' when you have the Faith and the issue is not denying Vatican Council II at any liturgy – but interpreting Vatican Council II rationally and not irrationally

There is no liturgy which is 'staid' when you have the Faith and the issue is not denying Vatican Council II at any liturgy – but interpreting Vatican Council II rationally and not irrationally.We must stop interpreting Vatican Council II, irrationally,  like Pope Francis and Michael Sean Winters at the National Catholic Reporter.

At the Novus Ordo Mass where everyone accepts Vatican Council II the Council should be interpreted rationally. Then the theology of the Church will be the same as that of the 16^th century. The Novus Ordo Mass will have the exclusivist ecclesiology of the Tridentine Latin Mass with the Roman Missal of 1580. The Mass in English or Italian, for the priest and congregation, will be an opportunity to affirm the past teaching, on their being exclusive salvation, in only the Catholic Church. This will show after Holy Mass when the Faith is proclaimed in mission, that there is the old ecumenism, old inter religious dialogue, based upon the past exclusivist ecclesiology and there is traditional mission. With the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS) intact, without practical exceptions,  religious liberty and collegiality will no more be an issue. Since the old theology will still be there which says it is important to be a Catholic to avoid Hell. So after Holy Mass in all rites and liturgies, the Social Reign of Christ the King in all political legislation can be proclaimed.This would mission. Since the priority will be saving souls from going to Hell through Catholic faith and the baptism of water. This is the teaching of Vatican Council II when it is interpreted rationally. Ad Gentes 7 supports EENS and LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc, being only hypothetical, always, are not practical exceptions for EENS or AG 7.

So Vatican Council II interpreted rationally  is no more an issue for the traditionalists and conservative Catholics. They can affirm the Council. It is Pope Francis and the liberals who are in a crisis and so they held their meeting in Chicago recently. They cannot cite the Council when it is interpreted with the Rational Premise. The break with Tradition was only possible with the Fake Premise.Now there is no more ideology in the name of Vatican Council II.

-Lionel Andrades

Pope Francis highlights danger of staid liturgies that 'deny Vatican Council II'

May 11, 2022

by Michael Sean Winters

 

Opinion

Vatican

...Much of the attention has focused on his remarks about liturgical formalism. "I would like to underline the danger, the temptation of liturgical formalism: going after forms, formalities rather than reality, as we see today in those movements that try to go backwards and deny Vatican Council II itself," the pope said. "In this way, the celebration is recitation, it is something without life, without joy." (Emphasis in original.)

Lionel: The pope here is referring to Vatican Council II interpreted with the False Premise. It is this irrational interpretation of the Council which is being used to justify liberalism in the Catholic Church.

The key phrase there is "deny Vatican Council II." We have all attended post-conciliar liturgies that lack joy. But it is when the liturgy becomes a weapon in the culture wars, when doubts are raised about Vatican II and its legitimacy, when liturgy becomes an ideological expression rather than an ecclesial one, that is where the Holy Spirit is shut out and the in-breaking of the divine mystery is nullified.

Lionel : Every good Catholic must reject Vatican Council II interpreted with a False Premise and accept Vatican Council II interpreted with a Rational Premise. The latter has a hermeneutic of continuity with Tradition.

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Francis did not mince words here: "When liturgical life becomes something of a banner of division, there is the odor of the devil, the deceiver, in there."

Lionel: Division is caused by the False Premise. It produces heresy  with new doctrines. It produces schism with the past Magisterium. It changes the interpretation of the First Commandment and presents new versions of the Creeds . This cannot come from the Holy Spirit.

____________________

His comments about previous changes, such as when Pius XII reintroduced the Easter Vigil, were apt. The naysayers were upset by Pius' action but the fact is the restoration of the great vigil helped prompt the Second Vatican Council to focus on the role of the baptized in new and important ways. Lex orandi, lex credendi: The law of prayer is the law of belief.

Relatedly, the pope said this about ecclesial unity:...

Lionel : There cannot be ecclesial unity based upon a False Premise.This is division with the past Magisterium, which was inspired by the Holy Spirit. Lionel Andrades

https://www.ncronline.org/news/opinion/pope-francis-highlights-danger-staid-liturgies-deny-vatican-council-ii

Overnight

 

The liberalism in the Church comes from Vatican Council II interpreted with a False Premise ( invisible people are physically visible in the present times, LG 8, 14 and 16 refer to visible non Catholics saved outside the Church).So the 'practical exceptions' for extra ecclesiam nulla salus and the Athanasius Creed, make the Council a break with Tradition. This is the False Inference from the False Premise. So the Conclusion is that Vatican Council II is a rupture with the Syllabus of Errors of Pope Pius X. Traditional ecclesiocentrism has become obsolete is the nontraditional conclusion.

But when the Rational Premise (invisible people are invisible, LG 8 etc refer to invisible and theoretical cases only) is used, the Council is in harmony with Tradition. Since the Rational Inference is that LG 8 etc are not examples of known salvation outside the Church, in the present times and so do not contradict EENS etc. So the Conclusion is that Vatican Council II supports EENS etc, with Ad Gentes 7 and Lumen Gentium14 (all need faith and baptism for salvation) and LG 8 etc, not being  practical exceptions for EENS( or Ad Gentes 7 and Lumen Gentium 14). Invisible people cannot be visible exceptions.So the Council is traditional, is the Conclusion. 

The dogma EENS and the Athanasius Creed are no more obsolete in 2022.

So with a traditional Vatican Council II there has to be a pope who is traaditional. The people in general will be traditional. Since when Vatican Council II is traditional and exclusivist and the popes acknowledge, it then the people will do the same. They will accept it as the teachings of the Catholic Church, past and present.

There will no more be a break with the understanding of Church (ecclesiology) of  St. Francis of Assisi, St. Catherine of St. Siena and the founders of the old religious communities.

Also secular organizations and institutions in the present times will now expect the popes, cardinals and bishops to interpret Vatican Council II rationally. This would be honest.

So overnight the Church will move from being liberal to being traditional.

The liberal theology of Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, which depended upon the False Premise, will now be obsolete and so also  his books, which carry the same mistake.It would be same with the books of Cardinal Walter Kasper and Archbishop Bruno Forte and Cardinal Semeraro. - Lionel Andrades

 MAY 10, 2022

So the Council would be traditional and the popes would have to be traditional and the people would be traditional and the Church would once again be traditional

 

The SSPX,CMRI,MHFM,FSSP and numerous others are all interpreting Vatican Council II with a False and not Rational Premise.

For them LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, GS 22 etc refer to visible non Catholics saved outside the Church in the present times (2022). While for me they refer to only hypothetical cases and not objective and visible cases in 1965-2022.

So for me they are not objective exceptions for the strict interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and the Syllabus or Errors.But for the conservatives, traditionalists, sedevacantists and liberals they are objective exceptions for Tradition.So Vatican Council II is a break with Tradition for all of them- but not for me.

Now tomorrow if Pope Francis announces that Vatican Council II is to be interpreted with LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc, referring to only hypothetical and speculative cases in the present times and so not objective exceptions for the dogma EENS, the Athanasius Creed and the Syllabus of Errors, the whole Church comes back to Tradition overnight.

The Council can only be interpreted rationally. So those who continue to interpret the Council with the False Premise ( invisible cases are visible, LG 8 etc refer to objective cases in the present times) would be in heresy and schism.They would be irrational and their interpretation would be dishonest.

So the Council would be traditional and the popes would have to be traditional and the people would be traditional and the Church would once again be traditional.-Lionel Andrades

MAY 10, 2022

With one move the whole Catholic Church comes back to Tradition overnight

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2022/05/with-one-move-whole-catholic-church.html