What is Magisterial and what is not.

 

(p.s EXCUSE THE TYPOS. I CANNOT MAKE THE CORRECTIONS AT THIS TIME.)

In January this year at the National Cathechetical Office in Italy, Pope Francis said all must accept Vatican Council II. He meant with Vatican Council II with the False Premise and not the Rational Premise.Was this Magisterial ? No.

Is it obligatory to interpret LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc in Vatican Council II as contradicting Tradition ( Athanasius Creed for example) ? No. There is a rational choice.Do the popes contradict the Athanasius Creed ? Yes.

Then what about the Catechisms ?

There is the clear case of 29 Q ( invincible ignorance) not contradicting 24 Q and 27 Q( outside the Church no salvation) in the Catechism of Pope Pius X. Is it the same for Pope Francis and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith ? No.

Then the Catechism of the Catholic Church (1257. The Necessity of Baptism) says that the Church knows of no means to eternal beatitude other than the baptism of water. CCC 1257 also says that God is not limited to the Sacraments. So do we know of any particular case in 1965-2021, of someone whom God has saved outside the Catholic Church because God was not limited to the Sacraments ? No.

So what is Magisterial and what is not ?- Lionel Andrades

Cardinal Cupich will have to adapt and accept Vatican Council II interpreted rationally or really reject the Council by continuing to interpret it irrationally and maintain the break with Tradition

 

 

Cardinal Cupich refers to Vatican Council II and its reforms and believes that the Latin Mass opposes it.Since traditionalists go back to Tradition while rejecting Vatican Council II , interpreted commonly with the False Premise.It is only with Vatican Council II interpreted with the False Premise could there be 'the reforms' that the progressivists welcome.

Now when lay liberals and conservative Catholics choose to interpret Vatican Council II with the Rational Premise, then even at Holy Mass in the vernacular we go back to the old theology and the old exclusivism. 

So Cardinal Cupich will have to adapt and accept Vatican Council II interpreted rationally or really reject the Council by continuing to interpret it irrationally and maintain the break with Tradition.-Lionel Andrades

https://voxcantor.blogspot.com/2021/11/rome-literally-attacks-holy-mass-and.html

The Pearl of Great Price; The Catholic faith : She Has Found The Hidden Treasure

 

https://gloria.tv/post/kJk3nwCsbwJM2CRe8ZJXP8AKt

Bishop Roland Minnerath could affirm Vatican Council II (Rational) and so the strict interpretation of EENS upon which is based the proclamation of the Social Reign of Christ the King

 

                                                                                                                                                                       -Lionel Andrades

Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic faith, which faith except that every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.- Athanasius Creed 

 

 APRIL 7, 2018

Even Vatican II says every one on the face of the earth is called to become a member of the Mystical Body ( the Catholic Church)- Fr.Paul McDonald , Fatima Center http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2018/04/even-vatican-ii-says-every-one-on-face.html

APRIL 8, 2018

Fr.Paul McDonald is really saying he supports an exclusivist ecclesiology with no dual conclusions, heterodox passages, no passages against EENS http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2018/04/frpaul-mcdonald-is-really-saying.html
APRIL 7, 2018

There is no known exception to the exclusive ecclesiology of the Church on salvation so we have the old evangelisation today http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2018/04/there-is-no-known-exception-to.html

APRIL 8, 2018

So for Fr. Paul McGregor the Social Reign of Christ the King must be taught in the Catholic family and its implementation will happen in future in Russia and the rest of the world when Our Lady's Immaculate Heart will Triumph http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2018/04/so-for-fr-paul-mcgregor-social-reign-of.html

Bishop Roland Minnerath's books are obsolete since he has used the False Premise to interpret Vatican Council II

 

                                                                                                                        -Lionel Andrades

La Bonne nouvelle du Christ aux dèfunts : Perspective de la thèologie des religions. ( French Edition)

by Françoise Breynaert and Roland Minnerath | Oct 4, 2014

I affirm the Syllabus of Errors of Pope Pius IX with Vatican Council II interpreted with the Rational Premise. Why cannot Bishop Roland Minnerath do the same ?

 

                                                                                                                                                                                          -Lionel Andrades

NOVEMBER 12, 2021

Coetus Internationalis Patrum were and are Cushingites.They are politically correct with the liberals.

 

"Coetus internationalis Patrum. The other side of Vatican II". Streaming november 12, 4pm

The Coetus Internationalis Patrum (International Group of Fathers) was the most important and influential interest group of the "conservative/traditionalist” minority at the Second Vatican Council. There were very relevant protagonists of this study group, as Cardinal Giuseppe Siri, Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, Archbishop Antônio de Castro Mayer and behind the scenes Brazilian Catholic thinker Plinio Côrrea de Oliveira. What we have to think today about it?

With host, musician and author Mº Aurelio Porfiri will debate about this topic Bishop Athanasius Schneider, Theologian Robert Fastiggi, Chief editor “of Inside the Vatican” Robert Moynihan, members of “Tradition, Family, Property” association and scholars José Antonio Ureta and Julio Loredo.

The program will be live streamed on numerous social media channels, including the You Tube channel RITORNO A ITACA, the Facebook fanpage of AURELIO PORFIRI and on Aurelio Porfiri’s TWITTER account.

'The Coetus Internationalis Patrum (International Group of Fathers)

 was the most important and influential interest group of the 

"conservative/traditionalist” minority at the Second Vatican Council. '

 The Coetus Internationalis Patrum  were Cushingites.

They  interpreted interpreting Vatican  Council II with the False Premise

 and not the Rational Premise.

The participants at this meeting are politically correct Cushingites. 

Bishop Athanasius Schneider was a Cushingite but when the said that 

there are no literal cases of the baptism of desire, in his interview with

Dr. Taylor Marshall, he was rejecting the New Theology and was 

Feeneyite. .-Lionel Andardes

http://blog.messainlatino.it/2021/11/coetus-internationalis-patrum-other.html#more

__________________________

 NOVEMBER 12, 2021

Archbishop Lefebvre interpreted Vatican Council II with the False Premise and not the Rational Premise and contributed towards the theological paradigm shift

I missed the first part of the discussion and arrived about a an hour late. I was fortunate to listen to them as things worked out this evening for me.

Dr. Robert Fastiggi who teaches at the leftist and liberal Sacred Heart Major Seminary, Detroit, USA said that some  theologians showed that they were not with the mind of the Church,like Fr. Hans Kung and there were others like Yves Congar who were not modernists but represented a certain mind set.Fastiggi said that he follows the opinion that the Holy Spirit would protect the Council from grave error and heresy.

Bishop Athanasius Schneider  remarked that we have to distinguish between heresy and error. Theological error is not a heresy.It can be corrected with the ordinary pronouncement of a pope.He agreed with Dr. Fastiggi that  the Holy Spirit will protect the pope so the Holy Spirit is guiding the Church today.But for Bishop Schneider there were rare cases in which there were errors, example as in the case of Pope Liberius. Now there are the errors of Pope Francis he observed. Though he did not think that Pope Francis was in heresy.

For Bishop Schneider there are expressions in Dominus Iesus which undermine Church teachings. He called for clear doctrinal statements.

He hoped that there will be a pope and a Council to clarify all the ambiguities of  Vatican Council II and the pronouncements of the popes after the Council. We have to preserve the integrity of the faith.

The Church must transmit the clarity and purity of the faith for the next generations to come, said Bishop Athanasius Schneider.

Even though there is confusion today the Catholic Church will return to its beauty and splendor he believed. We have confidence that Christ is winning and all is in his hands.

Dr.Julio Loredo and Jose Antonio Ureta spoke about Prof. Plinio Correira D'Oliveira and his work and his denunciation of modernist ideas being introduced.

Jose Antonio Ureta is the author of the book Pope Francis Paradigm Shift Continuity or Rupture.He said that it was noticed at the time of Vatican Council II  that collegiality was introducing new doctrines.The present Synods he said are an example of that collegiality.

For Robert Mohniyan  there could be a  development of doctrine but we cannot have a new Church with new doctrines. Bishop Schneider agreed with him on this point.

Bishop Schneider agreed with him.We cannot  speak of a new Church or Conciliar Church since Christ is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. 

All the speakers did not mention that Vatican Council II today can be interpreted in harmony with the strict interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, the Athanasius Creed and the Syllabus of Errors. Irrespective of who was present at Vatican Council II and what was the voting pattern.

A.The Holy Spirit cannot want us to interpret Vatican Council II with LG 8, LG 14,LG16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc as referring to physically visible, personally known and objective people in 1965-2021 who were saved outside the Catholic Church without faith and the baptism of water.Yet this is the common error today.

This is also common sense that we LG 8 etc can be practical cases since they are only known to God.This confusion was not there in the Church before the 1930's.But the liberals and traditionalists like the popes interpret LG 8, LG 14, LG 16 as referring to visible cases who are practical exceptions to the past exclusivist ecclesiology.This cannot be Magisterial.

B.So if the Holy Spirit wants us to be rational then we have to interpret LG 8,LG 14,LG 16 etc as being  hypothetical and theoretical only.This would mean that there are no practical exceptions to Feeneyite extra ecclesiam nulla salus. The Council is then dogmatic.It is in harmony with the past ecclesiocentrism.There is no break between faith and reason.

But the popes from Paul VI chose A and this could not be the work of the Holy Spirit.Also Robert Fastiggi and Robert Mohniyan choose the irrational interpretation of the Council and consider it the work of the Holy Spirit.

How can we say that we are still in the one, holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church when the popes today say outside the Church there is salvation ( based on a False Premise) and the popes of the past said outside the Church there is no salvation ?.Theologically this was creating a new Church. This was the real paradigm shift.

It was not mentioned that Archbishop Lefebvre interpreted Vatican Council II with the False Premise and not the Rational Premise.

With Vatican Council II Feeneyite, interpreted with the Rational Premise collegiality is not an issue. Since collegiality will have to be traditional at future synods.-Lionel Andrades

Lay Catholics who go for Holy Mass in French could ask Bishop Roland Minnerath why does he not affirm Vatican Council II ?

 

-Lionel Andrades

NOVEMBER 14, 2021

They did not say that the Government in Italy should be Catholic since Vatican Council is traditional

  

They did not say that the Government in Italy should be Catholic since Vatican Council is traditional. Ad Gentes 7 says all need faith and the baptism of water for salvation. All.

The passage in blue is orthodox and supports traditional ecclesiocentrism.

7. This missionary activity derives its reason from the will of God, "who wishes all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, Himself a man, Jesus Christ, who gave Himself as a ransom for all" (1 Tim. 2:45), "neither is there salvation in any other" (Acts 4:12). Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door. Therefore those men cannot be saved, who though aware that God, through Jesus Christ founded the Church as something necessary, still do not wish to enter into it, or to persevere in it."(17) Therefore though God in ways known to Himself can lead those inculpably ignorant of the Gospel to find that faith without which it is impossible to please Him (Heb. 11:6), yet a necessity lies upon the Church (1 Cor. 9:16), and at the same time a sacred duty, to preach the Gospel. And hence missionary activity today as always retains its power and necessity.-Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II

The passage in red refers to hypothetical cases and does not contradict the blue orthodox passage.

7. This missionary activity derives its reason from the will of God, "who wishes all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, Himself a man, Jesus Christ, who gave Himself as a ransom for all" (1 Tim. 2:45), "neither is there salvation in any other" (Acts 4:12). Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door. Therefore those men cannot be saved, who though aware that God, through Jesus Christ founded the Church as something necessary, still do not wish to enter into it, or to persevere in it."(17) Therefore though God in ways known to Himself can lead those inculpably ignorant of the Gospel to find that faith without which it is impossible to please Him (Heb. 11:6), yet a necessity lies upon the Church (1 Cor. 9:16), and at the same time a sacred duty, to preach the Gospel. And hence missionary activity today as always retains its power and necessity.-Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II

So we have the Council supporting the traditional interpretation of outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation and there are no practical exceptions mentioned in the Council-text.There are also none mentioned in real life.

So Vatican Council II is dogmatic supporting the Athanasius Creed and there are no exceptions to the old theology.

Since the old theology is intact we are back to Traditional Mission knowing that all need to accept Jesus in the Catholic Church as members with Catholic faith and the baptism of water. There are no known exceptions. Outside the Church there is no salvation ( CCC 846/AG 7).

Since it is important that all be members of the Catholic Church to avoid Hell ( for salvation) the priority should be the non separation of the Catholic Church and the Catholic State and the proclamation of the Social Reigm of Christ the King in all politics.

So Catholics should support political parties who affirm the Social Reign of Christ the King, like Forza Nuova and Militia Christi in Italy. - Lionel Andrades

Repost/Trending : We simply have to go back to the old ecclesiology by always using the Rational Premise and the ecclesiology before and after Vatican Council II will be the same, at every liturgy and rite.The doctrines of the Church on salvation, ecumenism, mission etc will still be the same.Then it is the liberals and Archbishop Arthur Roche and Cardinal Vince Nicols who will have to change and adapt

 

NOVEMBER 9, 2021

We simply have to go back to the old ecclesiology by always using the Rational Premise and the ecclesiology before and after Vatican Council II will be the same, at every liturgy and rite.The doctrines of the Church on salvation, ecumenism, mission etc will still be the same.Then it is the liberals and Archbishop Arthur Roche and Cardinal Vince Nicols who will have to change and adapt

 

“The misinterpretation and promotion of the use of these texts, after only limited concessions by previous Pontiffs, has been used to encourage a liturgy at variance with Conciliar reform (and which, in fact, was abrogated by Pope Saint Paul VI), and an ecclesiology that is not part of the Church’s Magisterium.”- Archbishop Arthur Roche

'an ecclesiology that is not part of the Church’s Magisterium'.

He means with Vatican Council II Cushingite; the Council interpreted with the Fake Premise the old ecclesiology of the Church has changed  and there is a new ecclesiology in the Catholic Church which is inspired by the Holy Spirit and is Magisterial for him.

He is not choosing to interpret Vatican Council II with Feeneyism; the Council interpreted with the Rational Premise, for then the old ecclesiology will not be contradicted by Vatican Council II ( Feeneyite) and this will still remain inspired by the Holy Spirit and continue to be Magisterial.

We simply have to go back to the old ecclesiology by always using the Rational Premise and the ecclesiology before and after Vatican Council II will be the same, at every liturgy and rite.The doctrines of the Church on salvation, ecumenism, mission etc will still be the same.Then it is the liberals and Archbishop Arthur Roche and Cardinal Vince Nicols  who will have to change and adapt.

It is to be noted that Pope Paul VI was interpreting Vatican Council II with the Fake Premise and so the interpretation was null and void.-Lionel Andrades

Vatican liturgy chief: Traditional Latin Mass ‘abrogated by Pope St. Paul VI’

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/249526/vatican-liturgy-chief-traditional-latin-mass-was-abrogated-by-pope-st-paul-vi?utm_campaign=CNA%20Daily&utm_medium=email&_hsmi=180697304&_hsenc=p2ANqtz--3uAxxDLDNqnFzNqxjVMxuG-xK1D3gxNKzdsyLBeu_iWZs2CYIVbFRAz8OwfIP4xr42QJ4PGKSg3RMdNWe6Ey0BDwjJeQ0xQR092lSCxPAohu1-cw&utm_content

_____________________________

They did not say that the Government in Italy should be Catholic since Vatican Council is traditional

  

They did not say that the Government in Italy should be Catholic since Vatican Council is traditional. Ad Gentes 7 says all need faith and the baptism of water for salvation. All.

The passage in blue is orthodox and supports traditional ecclesiocentrism.

7. This missionary activity derives its reason from the will of God, "who wishes all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, Himself a man, Jesus Christ, who gave Himself as a ransom for all" (1 Tim. 2:45), "neither is there salvation in any other" (Acts 4:12). Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door. Therefore those men cannot be saved, who though aware that God, through Jesus Christ founded the Church as something necessary, still do not wish to enter into it, or to persevere in it."(17) Therefore though God in ways known to Himself can lead those inculpably ignorant of the Gospel to find that faith without which it is impossible to please Him (Heb. 11:6), yet a necessity lies upon the Church (1 Cor. 9:16), and at the same time a sacred duty, to preach the Gospel. And hence missionary activity today as always retains its power and necessity.-Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II

The passage in red refers to hypothetical cases and does not contradict the blue orthodox passage.

7. This missionary activity derives its reason from the will of God, "who wishes all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, Himself a man, Jesus Christ, who gave Himself as a ransom for all" (1 Tim. 2:45), "neither is there salvation in any other" (Acts 4:12). Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door. Therefore those men cannot be saved, who though aware that God, through Jesus Christ founded the Church as something necessary, still do not wish to enter into it, or to persevere in it."(17) Therefore though God in ways known to Himself can lead those inculpably ignorant of the Gospel to find that faith without which it is impossible to please Him (Heb. 11:6), yet a necessity lies upon the Church (1 Cor. 9:16), and at the same time a sacred duty, to preach the Gospel. And hence missionary activity today as always retains its power and necessity.-Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II

So we have the Council supporting the traditional interpretation of outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation and there are no practical exceptions mentioned in the Council-text.There are also none mentioned in real life.

So Vatican Council II is dogmatic supporting the Athanasius Creed and there are no exceptions to the old theology.

Since the old theology is intact we are back to Traditional Mission knowing that all need to accept Jesus in the Catholic Church as members with Catholic faith and the baptism of water. There are no known exceptions. Outside the Church there is no salvation ( CCC 846/AG 7).

Since it is important that all be members of the Catholic Church to avoid Hell ( for salvation) the priority should be the non separation of the Catholic Church and the Catholic State and the proclamation of the Social Reigm of Christ the King in all politics.

So Catholics should support political parties who affirm the Social Reign of Christ the King, like Forza Nuova and Militia Christi in Italy. - Lionel Andrades