Vatican 2: Rupture or Continuity- Dr Taylor Marshall

At (8:13) of this video Taylor Marshall realizes that there are ambiguities in Vatican Council II. This is obvious.He also does not seem to know what is the precise cause of these ambiguities.Neither does Timothy Gordon, I assume. 

They have not  discovered the precise missing link, what causes the rupture with Tradition.They focus on the effects, the conclusions and inferences.

They do not know about the false premise. They can see the results of the false premise, the inference and conclusion which is a rupture with Tradition.

They cannot understand how a small premise can change the interpretation of the Council and how even if we interpret the Council today without the small premise there is a continuity with the past exclusivist ecclesiology and an ecumenism of return. Probably this would be unbelievable for them. After 50 years of interpreting Vatican Council II unknowingly with an false premise they would have to see through the invisble-visible mix up and then learn to re-interpret the Council without this artificial confusion.

Presently, with all humility, I would have to say that I am the only person who has discovered this false premise and has been interpreted the Council with the hermeneutic of continuity with the past and am writing about it.

Marshall and Gordon need to keep an open mind and explore what I am saying. They will see how simple it is and how there is no theological and philosophical basis for the theories of the Working Paper of the Amazon Synod.

-Lionel Andrades


https://taylormarshall.com/2019/09/306-vatican-2-rupture-continuity-podcast.html#respond

Even if the Church was infiltrated before and during Vatican Council II, the Council and other magisterial documents can be interpreted without the false premise. So the conclusion is different. If Dr.Taylor Marshall interprets Vatican Council II with Feeneyism he would be saying there are only Catholics in Heaven

Even if the Amazon Synod is proof that the Catholic Church has been infiltrated from within Dr. Taylor Marshall can still interpret Vatican Council II with Feeneyism instead of Cushingism and the result is a hermeneutic of continuity with Tradition.

So  Taylor Marshall can announce that LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc are not exceptions to the old ecclesiology. This would be a rejection of the new ecclesiology of the Working Paper of the Amazon Synod.

Even if the Church was infiltrated before and during Vatican Council II, the Council and other magisterial documents can be interpreted without the false premise. 

So the conclusion is different.Vatican Council II is Feeneyite, it is traditional. It supports the old ecclesiology.

This important point was not mentioned by Taylor Marshall even though he was informed about it on his blog.

Why did he not mention it?

If he interprets Vatican Council II with Feeneyism he would be saying there are only Catholics in Heaven.He would be saying that all non Catholics in the present times need to enter the Church with faith and baptism to avoid Hell. 

Is he willing to say all this?

It is easier to accept Vatican Council II with Cushingism as he did when he was the Fischer More College, USA.

-Lionel Andrades

Amazon Synod is proof that Catholic Church has been infiltrated from within: Dr. Taylor Marshall  https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/amazon-synod-is-proof-that-catholic-church-has-been-infiltrated-from-within-dr-taylor-marshall

The four point criticism of the Amazon Synod, Working Paper, on Oct. 1 issued by Coetus Internationalis Patrum Working Group (International Group of Fathers) is based upon the irrational interpretation of Vatican Council II.

The four point criticism of the Amazon Synod, Working Paper, on  Oct. 1 issued by  Coetus Internationalis Patrum Working Group (International Group of Fathers) is based upon the irrational interpretation of Vatican Council II. The Council is interpreted with Cushingism.This creates a rupture with the magisterial documents which support exclusive salvation. So with exclusive salvation being contradicted there is alleged known salvation outside the Church. The Church no more teaches outside the Church there is no salvation but instead outside the Church there is salvation.

So there is a new ecclesiology in the Church. 

The four points of the Working Paper is based upon the new ecclesiology.If there is salvation outside the Church then why cannot  the pagans in the Amazon be saved in their religions ? Why cannot Catholics also use their artifacts during Holy Mass?

Here are the four points.

1. Amazonian diversity, which is above all religious diversity, evokes a new Pentecost (IL 30): respect for this diversity means to recognize that there are other paths to salvation, without reserving salvation exclusively to the Catholic faith. Non-Catholic Christian groups teach other modalities of being Church, without censures, without dogmatism, without ritual disciplines and ecclesial forms (IL 138); the Catholic Church ought to integrate these modalities. Reserving salvation exclusively to the Creed is destructive of the Creed (IL 39).

Lionel: This is based upon Vatican Council II ( Cushingite). The Council is interpreted with LG 8 etc being not hypothetical and theoretical but personally known non Catholics saved outside the Church without faith and baptism.So this error has to be corrected. 

It has to be announced that hypothetical cases are just hypothetical and they are not objective examples of salvation outside the Church.

2. The teaching of Pan-Amazonian theology, which takes special account of myths, rituals, and celebrations of indigenous cultures, is required in all educational institutions (IL 98 c 3). Non-Christian rites and celebrations are proposed as “essential for integral salvation” (IL 87) and we are asked to “adapt the Eucharistic rite to their cultures” (IL 126 d). On rituals: IL 87, 126.

Lionel : Since ecclesiology, understanding of Church (mission, salvation, ecumenism etc) has been changed, any thing is possible now.The past dogmas are not fixed.Any thing can be changed.The Athanasius Creed and Syllabus of Errors are obsolete when there is known salvation outside the Catholic Church.

_____________________________

3. Among the various Loci Theologici (that is, among the various sources of theology, such as Sacred Scripture, the Councils, the Fathers of the Church) there is included the territory [of the Amazon] and the cry of its peoples. (IL 18, 19, 94, 98 c 3, 98 d 2, 144).

Lionel: Theology is based upon false Cushingism. Then with the false premise there are false inference.

_____________________________

4. It is suggested that ordination be conferred on older persons who have families and to confer “official ministries” on women. There is thus proposed a new vision of Holy Orders which does not come from Revelation, but from the cultural usages of the Amazonian people (which provide for a rotating system of authority, among other things). Therefore, there ought to be separation made between the priesthood and the munus regendi (IL 129 a 2, 129 a 3, 129 c 2).1

Lionel: Since the old ecclesiology has been replaced with the New Ecclesiology, New Ecumenism etc , everything is open to change.

All this can be prevented if Vatican Council II is replaced with Feeneyism instead of the present Cushingism. Then old ecclesiology would still be the same.-Lionel Andrades

1

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/bishops-priests-challenge-amazon-synod-working-doc-for-contradicting-catholic-faith

Speakers at the Voice of the Family Conference remain politically correct with the Left and the Working Paper of the Amazon Synod: reject exclusive salvation assuming there are known cases of BOD, BOB and I.I

SUPPORT SCHISMATIC LEFT
None of the speakers at the Voice of the Family conference yesterday affirmed the strict interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS) and denied that the baptism of desire(BOD), baptism of blood(BOB) and invincible ignorance(.I) were exceptions. None of them said LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc were not exceptions to the past ecclesiology. They maintained that heretical and schismatic  new ecclesiology of the present two popes and the political Left.Catholics who finance and donate them , should be aware of this mortal sin of faith, of the panelists.

The panel reject the Athanasius Creed, change the Nicene and Apostles Creed, re-interpret Vatican Council II and the Catechisms with an irrationality and maintain the heresy to protect their personal interests-and then criticize Pope Francis who is probably doing the same thing.

ALL ARE LEGALLY CATHOLICS

It was good that they called upon Catholics not to leave the Church and to still respect the office of the pope but if they did not heretically affirm the Creeds, Catechisms and Vatican Council II, they would be denounced by Pope Francis and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith(CDF) as legally not being Catholics.So they respect the office of the present pope and do not affirm exclusive salvation with BOD, BOB and I.I not being visible exceptions.This is also the reasoning of the liberals and now it is official in the Working Paper of the Amazon Synod.

The panelists, if they affirmed the Catholic faith on exclusive salvation,  would be asked not to call themselves Catholics.This is the experience of the religious community Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary at the St. Benedict Center(SBC), North Hampshire, USA.
Brother Andre Marie MICM, Prior,SBC affirms exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church.For him BOD, BOB and I.I. are hypothetical.They  cannot  be exceptions to EENS.So he interprets Vatican Council II and EENS rationally. There is no rupture with Tradition(Creeds and Catechism, Syllabus of Error and Athanasius Creed).


SUPPORT AMAZON SYNOD WORKING PAPER

None of the conference speakers say there are only Catholics in Heaven, even though the Working Paper of the Amazon Synod officially and clearly rejects exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church.
The Left does not permit the SBC to have a conference on any subject they choose.The Voice of the Family conference is permitted, like those of the Lepanto Foundation, since it is politically not controversial, with the enemies of the Church.

Michael Voris says he affirms outside the Church there is no salvation but will not state that BOD, BOB and I.I are not exceptions to EENS and the past ecclesiology. They are exceptions for him and the staff of Church Militant TV.This is also the liberal, heretical position of the present two popes. Michael Voris does not want to reject the Working Paper of the Amazon Synod supporting exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church.
He does not resign announcing that he cannot any more proclaim the Catholic faith on CMTV. He is not allowed to do so.

For Roberto dei Mattei too, invincible ignorance is an exception to Feeneyite EENS. He did not tell Diane Montagna, when asked, that there are no known cases of non Catholics saved outside the Church in the present times(2019), saved in invincible ignorance. Mattei still interprets Vatican Council II with LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, GS 22 etc being exceptions to Feeneyite EENS.This is schism with the popes before Pius XII.He follows the error of Pope Paul VI and the popes who followed.

Michael Matt rejects Feeneyite EENS. So unknown cases of BOD, BOB and I.I are known exceptions to the past ecclesiology , the Syllabus of Errors and Tradition.This is a rejection of de fide teachings of the Church. However with this heresy, the ecclesiastics of the Church allow him to keep his Remnant News.
You can only 'unite the clans' with the truth; the faith, and not political compromise.

John Henry Weston supports family issues but does not tell young people and his children, that there is exclusive salvation in only the Catholic Church. He   supports Bishop Athanasius Schneider who cannot say that Vatican Council II affirms exclusive salvation.He cannot say that Protestants are oriented to Hell without being members of the Catholic Church.Instead Schneider interprets Vatican Council II and the Creeds and Catechisms with the New Theology of the liberals.Bishop Schneider also interprets Lumen Gentium as an exception to EENS.This is contrary to common sense.

Jose Antonio Ureta, of the Tradition,Family and Property (TFP) movement in France does not admit that Plinio Correa de Oliveira, the President of Brazil's TFP,did not know the difference between Cushingism and Feeneyism.He wrongly interpreted Vatican Council II with Cushingism.The same mistake was made by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, Michael Davies, the Hildebrands and the traditionalists of that time.But Roberto dei Mattei does not talk about it,inspite of so many reminders over the years.He wrote books interpreting Vatican Council II with Cushingism.


UNABLE TO DISCUSS THIS ISSUE

For all of them on that panel being politically correct with the Left is a priority as it has been for the present two heretical popes, in schism with the popes over the centuries before Pius XII.The popes in the 16th century for example,  did not interpret BOD, BOB and I.I as being exceptions to EENS, to change the ecclesiology of the Catholic Church.

They are unable to report or discuss this issue since then they could be accused of cooperating with Anti Semitic and racist Catholics.These are Catholics who affirm EENS with BOD, BOB and I.I being only hypothetical cases.
So the panelists abjure the faith, put the focus on Pope Francis, and ignorant Catholics send them donations.
-Lionel Andrades

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Repost : Primer on Feeneyism and Cushingism

JUNE 24, 2018

Primer on Feeneyism and Cushingism

1.

Outside the Church there is no salvation.

Therefore, all must be converted to Him... and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door. -Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II

Outside the Church there is no salvation is the teaching of the Catholic Church today.

It depends upon how you interpret Vatican Council II.

If LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc refer to physically visible and known non Catholicssaved outside the Church, without 'faith and baptism', then there is  salvation outside the Church.

If LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc refer to hypothetical cases, non Catholics who are physically invisible and unknown in 2018, then outside the Church there is no known salvation. 

Do you know any one saved outside the Church? I don't.

So Vatican Council II says today that outside the Church there is no salvation.

All need faith and baptism for salvation.(Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II).

2.

When I tell people that they cannot see or meet anyone saved with the baptism of desire. They agree. They say only God can see who is saved or not saved.

So if someone is saved in invincible ignorance or with the baptism of desire  it would only be known to God.Since we cannot physically see people in Heaven.

Would you agree? Yes of course. Everyone agrees.

We cannot see or know anyone who is in Heaven without 'faith and baptism'.

Now the Church tells us that the normal way to go to Heaven is 'faith and baptism'(AG 7).

Every one needs the baptism of water and Catholic faith for salvation.Every adult. This is the general teaching of the Church from John 3:5, Mark 16:16, Mt. 7:13-14.

So the teaching of the Church today is that everyone needs faith and baptism for salvation and there are no practical exceptions to EENS.

The baptism of desire(BOD), baptism of blood (BOB)  and being saved in invincible ignorance(I.I) are not practical exceptions. 

We can speculate and hope that someone will be saved in invincible ignorance etc but this would be personal and sentimental.We can never know. We cannot judge.

1) So every one needs faith and the baptism of water for salvation( Vatican Council II(AG 7), Cantate Domino, Council of Florence 1441 onextra ecclesiam nulla salus,  Catechism of the Catholic Church 1257,CCC 845,846 etc).

2) BOD, BOB and I.I refer to hypothetical cases which can be known only to God. They  are not practical exceptions to EENS in 2018.

___________________

3.
So when I read Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church, I will assume the  BOD, BOB and I.I refer to hypothetical cases only. Similarly in Vatican Council II LG 8 etc refers to only hypothetical cases. I call this way of reading Vatican Council II, Feeneyism.

Most Catholics when they read Vatican Council II and the Catechisms they assume BOD, BOB and I.I refer to non hypothetical cases. known people  saved outside the Church. Similarly LG 8 etc refer to non hypothetical and objective cases.I call this way of reading Vatican Council II, Cushingism.

Feeneyism sees hypothetical cases as just being hypothetical.

Cushingism sees hypothetical cases as being physically visible non Catholics saved outside the Church.

So Cushingites read Vatican Council II  as a rupture with the dogma EENS( Feeneyite).Since there are known exceptions outside the Church for them.

Feeneyites  see Vatican Council II in harmony with EENS ( Feeneyite) and the past ecclesiology, since hypothetical cases cannot be exceptions to all needing to enter the Church in 2018, as members for salvation.

An invisible  person is not an exception to EENS.

1.So we can read Vatican Council II ,the Catechism etc  with Feeneyism or Cushingism.

2.So BOD, BOB and I.I  can be Feeneyite orCushingite.

3.Similarly LG 8,LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc can be interpreted with Feeneyism orCushingism.

-Lionel Andrades

_________________________________________________

JUNE 27, 2018

He does not want to say like Cardinal Raymond Burke that other religions are false paths to salvation or like Cardinal Angelo Amato he does not want to call for Mission based on Vatican Council II (AG 7, LG 14)

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2018/06/like-present-two-popes-and-vatican.html

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2018/06/repost-primer-on-feeneyism-and.html

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