Monday, October 29, 2012

TRADITIONALLY IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH THEY ACCEPTED THE ' RIGORIST INTERPRETATION' OF THE DOGMA ALONG WITH INVINCIBLE IGNORANCE AND IMPLICIT DESIRE

Padre Angelo Fiorentino F.I writes that the Catholic Church is the unique door to eternal salvation (Unica Porta del salvezza eterna la chiesa cattolica) but he does not cite Ad Gentes 7(AG 7), Vatican Council II (1) to support his view. The Catechism of the Catholic Church mentions AG 7 under the title Outside the Church No Salvation (CCC 846)


Padre Fiorentino in an article in Il Settimanale di Padre Pio (Oct.28,2012.pp.16-17) states that faithful Catholics baptized in the Catholic Church, possess the Holy Spirit and are fully incorporated in the Church. They are bound to a unique profession of faith, they accept all the Sacraments and they are in communion with the Pope and the bishops. They have the guarantee of salvation unless they die with un-confessed mortal sin.

He does not mention AG 7 or the Catechism of the Catholic Church which says all need 'faith and baptism 'for salvation.ALL.

Neither does he mention that only in principle Vatican Council II refers to those who can be saved in other religions, in invincible ignorance etc. In principle only and not as a known fact.This is an important point omitted.

Now it seems that Padre Fiorentino is saying that the Church is the only door to salvation and so every one needs faith and baptism for salvation and yet he is also saying that outside the church, there is  known salvation. This is contradictory.


When the Catechism says God is not bound to the Sacraments (CCC 1257) it refers to cases in principle only, not as defacto, known cases. In 2012 there is no case known personally of a non-Catholic saved in invincible ignorance etc. We cannot see the deceased. By not addressing this point, of Vatican Council II referring to only in principle cases, the article has the familiar yes and know position.It says every one needs to enter the church but some known people on earth do not.


Th Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate could review  the following points:-


1. Do we personally know any one saved with the baptism of desire or in invincible ignorance in 2012? (Are they visible to us?)

2. Do we know any one in 2012 saved with the ‘seeds of the word’ (Ad Gentes ), imperfect communion with the Church (Unitatis Redintigratio) or a good conscience (Lumen Gentium )?

3. If we do not know any of these cases in 2012 then they do not contradict Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II which says all need 'faith and baptism' for salvation? (There are no known exceptions to AG 7?).

4. If there are no known exceptions to Ad Gentes 7 then there are no exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus?

5. It would mean there are no exceptions in Vatican Council II to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus?

6.If Vatican Council II does not contradict the dogma on salvation then the Council is saying all non Catholics need to convert into the Church for salvation ?( The message of AG 7 and the dogma?)

At the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate seminary in Boccea, Rome the seminarians are not taught that invincible ignorance etc are accepted  only in principle.Since these cases are not known defacto, explicitly, they can be accepted only in principle, in faith. There is no choice. So they are not an exception to AG 7 when mentioned in Vatican Council II. This is important. Since it changes the entire interpretation of Vatican Council II to a traditional Council.

One of the priest formattors at the Franciscn Friars of the Immaculate Seminary is Fr.Francesco Giordano, who is working towards a doctorate at the Holy Cross University on the subject of extra ecclesiam nulla salus.He received his Masters Degree from the Angelicum University,Rome  under Bishop Charles Morerod O.P not knowing that invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire can only be accepted in principle. They are not exceptions to Fr.Leonard Feeney's literal interpretation.


Vatican Council II like the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and the Syllabus of Errors says faith and baptism are necessary for salvation (AG 7,LG 14).These are the texts also not cited by Padre Angelo Fiorentino F.I a member of the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate who publish Il Settimanale di Padre Pio.


So LG 16, which the article mentions, refers to cases in principle only .LG 16 does not contradict AG 7.Neither does AG 7 contradict itself when it says:
Therefore though God in ways known to Himself can lead those inculpably ignorant of the Gospel to find that faith without which it is impossible to please Him -AG 7

Neither does it contradict itself when it also states:
Therefore those men cannot be saved, who though aware that God, through Jesus Christ founded the Church as something necessary, still do not wish to enter into it, or to persevere in it."-AG 7

Only God can finally judge who knows and who does not know and who is saved and who is not saved. We know that those in manifest mortal sin are oriented to Hell. We know because the Church says so.In general only God can judge the population.Ad Gentes 7 still says ALL need faith and baptism for salvation. This is the ordinary means of salvation.

So when  Padre Fiorentino mentions that all who are saved are saved through Jesus and the Church he does not contradict AG 7 which says all need faith and baptism for salvation.


Being saved in invincible ignorance and a good conscience is not an exception to St.Francis of Assisi's 'rigorist interpetation' of extra ecclesiam nulla salus.


Neither is being saved with the baptism of desire etc an explicit exception to St.Maximilian Kolbe's literal interpretation of the dogma,expressed in his writings.

We do not know anyone saved in invincible ignorance and only in principle we accept the possibility of this happening. This is how it was understood traditionally. It is not a personal opinion but the traditional teaching in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. They accepted the 'rigorist interpretation' of the dogma along with invincible ignorance and implicit desire.-Lionel Andrades
 
1.
Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door. -Ad Gentes 7,Vatican Council II

Per Constantino un segno straordinario apparve in cielo egli vide una croce di luce sulla quale erano tracciate le parole IN HOC SIGNO VICES ( con questo segno vincerai)- Daniele Sebastianelli, a Ponte Milvio, Roma

Discorso a Ponte Milvio di  Daniele Sebastianelli, Responsabile, Militia Christi,Roma (27.10.2012)