Thursday, December 11, 2014

Vatican Council II is in agreement with extra ecclesiam nulla salus according to Fr.Leonard Feeney and not according to the SSPX, sedevacantists and others who use irrational Cushingism

THE LAW DOESN'T REFER TO HYPOTHETICAL CASES.
Lionel:
Canon Law does not refer to hypothetical cases.Neither does Vatican Council II or the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 refer to hypothetical cases or the irrational inference.
Common knowledge of not being able to see the dead who are now saved in Heaven tells us that these cases are hypothetical for us. They are known only to God.
Neither do these documents mention the irrational inference, the false premise.
Yet when one infers that the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance are exceptions to the dogma means to imply that these cases are known and visible to us.Otherwise how could they be exceptions to the literal interpretation of the dogma according to Fr.Leonard Feeney.
So there is no reference to the irrational premise in the documents you have mentioned but the inference is made. Hypothetical questions are considered defacto and objectively visible, to be exceptions to the dogma.
YOU ONLY WANT IT TO BECAUSE YOU'RE WRONG AND YOU CAN'T SEE IT ANY OTHER WAY WITHOUT ADMITTING YOUR ERROR.
Lionel:
Be precise. What is my error?
YOU HAVE THE SICKNESS OF THE DIMOND BROTHERS, BP WEBB, AND SO MANY OTHERS.
Lionel:
I affirm Vatican Council II. I do not have a problem with Vatican Council II. Why should I ? Vatican Council II is in perfect agreement with the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus according to Fr.Leonard Feeney and not according to the SSPX, sedevacantists and others who use irrational Cushingism.
-Lionel Andrades
 
The Council of Trent only referred to the baptism of desire. It did not say that these cases were known and visible to us

Venerdì 12 dicembre. Asia Bibi è in prigione da cinque anni. A Brescia, alle ore 20.30 in piazza Paolo VI, il gruppo Rosario per l’Italia invita alla recita del Santo Rosario

 
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In una cella di isolamento di pochi metri quadrati senza finestra, così ha trascorso Asia Bibi gli ultimi suoi cinque anni di vita, accusata di aver infettato il pozzo di un mussulmano per averne attinto e bevuto un bicchiere d’acqua. Il tribunale di Lahore in Pakistan l’ha condannata a morte sotto pressione dei fondamentalisti islamici che minacciano anche l’avvocato e i parenti.
Il 12 dicembre saranno 2000 giorni che Asia Bibi è in carcere e nonostante sia sorretta dalla Fede si trova in uno stato di grave prostrazione fisica e psicologica.

A suo sostegno venerdì 12 dicembre alle ore 20.30 il gruppo del Rosario per l’Italia si troverà in piazza Paolo VI a Brescia per recitare il Rosario e chiedere la grazia per Asia Bibi e la sua liberazione.

Chiediamo a tutte le persone che amano la giustizia di abbandonare ogni indugio e sopportare anche qualche piccolo disagio – pensando che è nulla al confronto delle condizioni disumane in cui vive Asia Bibi – e di unirsi a noi nella recita del Rosario per restituire dignità e libertà a questa giovane donna disposta a morire pur di testimoniare la propria Fede.

Invitiamo le persone di tutta Italia a fare altrettanto nelle città e nei paesi in cui vivono riunendosi in una piazza per recitare insieme il Santo Rosario.

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zzRosario Asia Bibi 02
 
 

Così dice in questo video diretto ed efficace il cardinale e arcivescovo di Colombo Malcolm Ranjith (intervistato dal Timone)

QUONIAM TU SOLUS SANCTUS
TU SOLUS ALTISSIMUS




Così dice in questo video diretto ed efficace il cardinale e arcivescovo di Colombo Malcolm Ranjith (intervistato dal Timone nel numero di novembre):
«Dopo le riforme del Concilio, non a causa dei padri riformatori ma di singoli individui che hanno deciso di prendere in mano la questione e hanno fatto cose piuttosto superficialmente, la Chiesa ha gradualmente perso l’elemento mistico, che riguarda ciò che è nascosto. Ed è questo il motivo per cui oggi la gente trova le nostre liturgie noiose, perché le abbiamo private di simbolismo, per ridurle ad azioni. Ma l’azione non è la cosa più importante. La cosa più importante è l’essere. Non l’azione, il fare, ma l’essere. La liturgia è essere alla presenza di Dio, aperti a Lui e alla lingua non scritta con cui ci parla, una forza che ci trasforma in profondità, anche se non comprendiamo tutto quello che stiamo facendo».

Mons. Fellay, Mario Borghezio e Alain Escada inaugurano il presepio nell'atrio del Parlamento Europeo

Dal presepe, dal ricordo dell’Incarnazione e dell’infanzia di Nostro Signore tutto ha avuto inizio. In un’epoca in cui – nel nome della neutralità religiosa e della laicità – persino un simbolo come il Presepio è bistrattato e detestato, è bene ricordare che è a Gesù che dobbiamo tutto, compresa la nostra identità. Come dice Fellay, non si tratta di un atto di coraggio ma di onestà.
 
Partecipano alla benedizione, svoltasi a Bruxelles, l’europarlamentare leghista Mario Borghezio e il presidente di Civitas, il belga Alain Escada.


Commissar Volpi Threatens Bishops -- Franciscans of the Immaculate Are Trying to Overthrow Pope Francis

Wednesday, December 10, 2014

Commissar Volpi Threatens Bishops -- Franciscans of the Immaculate Are Trying to Overthrow Pope Francis

The Commissar and the Franciscans of the Immaculate
(Rome) The Apostolic Commissioner of the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate urges the Italian bishops not to incardinate priests who want to leave the maltreated Order. It even comes to threats. The background is an alleged "conspiracy" by the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate for the "downfall of Pope Francis," from which the Commissar wanted to save the Church leader. What followed was a written slugfest between Father Volpi and a leading bishop.
For the last 16 months the Order of the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate was among the most flourishing religious orders of the Catholic Church. The young Order, canonically erected in 1990 , was astonishing in its completely opposite trend. While other orders bemoaned a shortage of young people, the Order grew up in the West at an impressive pace. In an effort to return to the roots of the Franciscan Order and to follow the original rule of the order, the Order discovered the treasures of the Church, went to the traditional rite the tradition of the Church on its own. With the resignation of Pope Benedict XVI. its fate was thus sealed. The visible figurehead of the Benedictine reform of the reform, which had become an Old Ritual Order, had lost his patron.

Commissioner Volpi invited by Pope Confidant Galatino to Bishops' Conference

Since July 2013 provided the Order of the Franciscans of the Immaculate Conception has been provided with a provisional administration. The religious congregation continued with the approval of Pope Francis under a Capuchin Father Fidenzio Volpi. The Apostolic Commissioner came to enforce his policy sanctions in the autumn General Assembly of the Italian Episcopal Conference in part, after some bishops had shown willingness to include the brothers and priests of the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate i in their dioceses.
After this provisional procedure became known there was a written exchange between the website Nuova Bussola Quotidiana (NBQ) and Commissioner Volpi.
We initiated a report by Matteo Matzuzzi last 25 November. Matzuzzi is Vaticanist the daily newspaper Il Foglio .

Episcopal Head Shaking Morning "Pope \ earl"

Commissar Volpi with Pope Francis
Matzuzzi reported on the "orientation" of many bishops around the world for the morning sermon by Pope Francis on 21 November in Santa Marta. It was the "Pearl of the Day" that triggered the helpless shaking of the head among the bishops. Pope Francis accused priests and parish secretaries who were supposed to have published price lists for the sacraments on church doors. According to Vatican Radio , the "pearl" spread, and made ​​more than one bishop a squirm in his chair. "So it gives the impression as if we were only baptize when we see a donation in an envelope," said Matzuzzi quoting an Italian bishop.
There may be black sheep everywhere, but the reality in the Church from Cape Town to Svalbard, from Vladivostok to Porto is clear. The fees are minimal and are entirely subsided in case of need. In many parts of the world where there is no government-driven church tax as in the Federal Republic of Germany, the clergy is even denied their livelihood from these offerings.
In the afternoon of the same day there was a public clarification by Cardinal Angelo Bagnasco, the President of the Italian Bishops' Conference: "The sacraments are to be paid in any way. The duties of the faithful are a form of contributing to the material needs of the Church." The statement was immediately read by observers as a response to the Pope's morning talks if Cardinal Bagnasco did not mention the pope by name.
Who would not have understood it, was better taught contrario by the speaker of the Episcopal Conference, Monsignor Domenico Pompili as he briefly stated: "Each statement made by the President of the Episcopal Conference as a counter to Pope Francis are misleading ".

Episcopal Anger at Argentine Pope

Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate
That something is not working in the relationship between the center and the edges, is but certain. This was evident a few weeks ago, when the Pope confidante, Archbishop Bruno Forte of Chieti-Vasto, who wrote, as the synods' Special Secretary, the controversial gay passages of the interim report for the Synod of Bishops, who resoundingly trumpeted Bishop Mario Marini of Fielsole at the election of the Vice-President of the Episcopal Conference. The only 30 percent of the vote against 70 percent of Bishop Maini in the decisive second round wasn't even close, not even for an honorable defeat, but for a man like Msgr. Forte, who feels called for higher things, it was a crushing rebuff.
The situation was very embarrassing for some, was why yet begun during the bishops' meeting, the play down "incident"."You wanted new faces precedence," was the embarrassment formula.
Anyway: One possible promotion for Fortes is one of the great Archdiocesan chairs with the dignity of Cardinal, which are open in 2015, namely Florence and Bologna, is a bar quite high. In 2011, Forte was discussed for the Archdiocese of Milan. Benedict XVI., however, appointed the then Patriarch of Venice, Cardinal Angelo Scola. Forte was discussed as a possible Patriarch of Venice, but Benedict XVI, which not only was Benedict irritated by Fortes fierce opposition to the corrected translation of the words of consecration in the vernacular. (Pro multis - for many), so Francesco Moraglia was chosen instead, who himself chose a meaningfully strong coat of arms, which is virtually identical to that of St. Pius X, who himself was also Patriarch of Venice. Pope Francis has not created Patriarch Moraglia a cardinal yet, although traditionally the Patriarchal chair is connected to the cardinalate. It's a set back that has been associated with Moraglia's understanding of the Church.
Not enough: in the first round by the way, Bishop Mariano Crociata of Latina received 27 votes. Crociata, who in 2013 was Secretary of the Bishops' Conference was then replaced by Pope Francis overnight by Bishop Nunzio Galatino Cassano all'Jonio. Bishop Crociata asked his brother Bishops, not to give him any more votes, because that could be interpreted as an affront to Pope Francis. But some of the bishops intended to be demonstrative with their vote.

Galatinos Franciscan Officiate and the Invitation to Commissioner Volpi

Bishop Galatino with Pope Francis
The newly appointee, without consultation with Cardinal Bagnasco, Secretary General Galatino, fills his office so that he could be imposed as the President of the Bishops' Conference and immediately maintains contact with the Vatican. Exactly, in the opinion of observers, this was whatthe Pope wanted with Galatino's appointment: A major reorganization of the Episcopal Conference, without dismissing its president, and thus attracting too much attention. Galatino is the bishop who snidely commented on the Pro-Lifers who work against the outrageousness of the mass murder of unborn children at abortion clinics and hospitals and pray the rosary for the right to life of every human being.
The Pope's confidant, Galatino, was also appointed by Rome as the Apostolic Commissioner of the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate has invited Father Fidenzio Volpi for Autumn Plenary Assembly of Bishops. The real purpose of the bishop's invitation was more apparent during the breaks. Commissioner Volpi approached and targeted certain bishops and urged them not to incardinate brothers of the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate in their diocese who want to leave the Order because of radical upheaval. The procedure of the Commissioner is very unusual because incardination is constantly taking place in many dioceses around the world. The Commissioner's foray is therefore aimed specifically against the priests entrusted to him. They have been denied in Rome for more than a year, the new foundation as an Old Rite Order. Commissioner Volpi will prevent the brothers leaving the Order or from being incardinated into dioceses. In other words, the impression that arises is that Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate should be forced to remain in the Order, to force them to accept the realignment.
The intention becomes clearer, if one takes into account that Bishop Galatino as Secretary of the Bishops' Conference called upon the Bishops of Italy with an official letter, that no Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate are to be incardinated. If appropriate requests are made, the bishops should immediately inform Commissioner Volpi Commissioner of it.
Commissioner Volpi's "Clarification" That Explained Nothing
Founder Manelli celebrated in the Lateran Basilica St.Sacrifice of the Mass in the traditional rite
Matzuzzi's article drew a counter notification by the Commissioner himself, who relied on the press law. Participation in the conference of bishops was justified by the Commissioner with his role as General Secretary of the Superior Conference of male religious orders in Italy. He says he did not speak to the bishops in order to address the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate addressed, but he had raised that subject on this occasion to the bishops. It belongs to the "wise practice" of the Church that a responsible religious will be contacted by the bishops before incardinating former members of religious orders, especially when it comes to a priest. If Bishop Galatino is to have asked the bishops, says Volpi, to align themselves with this practice, then it would fall to his responsibilities as General Secretary of the Episcopal Conference.
Thus Commissioner Volpi gave an unsolicited clarification, however, without clarifying anything. It was replicated by the chief editor of NBQ, Riccardo Cascioli.
Cascioli wrote to the Commissioner that no one had doubted that he was invited to the General Assembly of the Bishops' Conference, but that it posed questions about the reasons for the referral, "especially regarding your behavior towards some bishops".
Cascioli opposed the spread of Volpi's impression that he belonged, as General Secretary of the Superiors Conference, of his own motion for the Episcopal Conference or that such participation is an established practice. But neither the one nor the other is true. "That explains," said the NBQ-Editor in Chief, "which is why many bishops were amazed when they had to take notice of your presence at the meeting without having it exlained to them beforehand. I am sure that there was a justified reason for your presence, but unfortunately your writing does not clarify on this."

Not "wise practice", but "hard pressure"

Franciscan Sisters of the Immaculate under the aegis of a Visitrix
Cascioli continues: "It may be that the bishops will be approached to you as well (I have no reason to doubt it, of which we have not spoken). We have criticized, however, that you have approached with intimidating demeanor and talk to bishops, to cause them to reject requests for incardination by the Franciscans of the Immaculate. It's a statement that you do not deny in your reply. Apart from that, it is apparent now by several witnesses. That raises the question of the extent the powers of the Commissioner of an Order actually reach. We know of no case that is comparable. "
Cascioli then shredded Volpis assertion that it is a "wise practice" of the Church, to contact the appropriate religious superiors before incardinating a former religious. Be that as confirms the NBQ-editor, but what Volpi and Galatino in the case of the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate do have nothing to do with the consultations of the Church's practice, but is exercising "hard pressure", to extend "threats against bishops" in order "to prevent some brothers from finding refuge in a diocese or other religious order." There is no alternative, that Volpi's motto is, "either by the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate, according to Commissar Volpi or nothing." Also it was "an unprecedented procedure that even according to the canon law, it contradicts the basic right to freedom of conscience," says Cascioli.

Dogged Action Against the Order and the "Plans" to Overthrow Pope Francis

Commissar Volpi with Pope Francis (7 November 2014)
This exacerbates the issues that have already found no satisfactory answer: "Why this harshness up to this day, that neither the reasons for the provisional administration were explained about this blooming Order in the Summer of 2013, nor a time frame for the provisional government."
The official internet site which is controlled by the Commissioner of the Order offers no help to find answers to the open questions. Helpful on the other hand, is a blog that says of himself, is close to Commissioner Volpi. The blog describes itself "in accordance with the provisional administration of the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate" and published an arid invective against the article by Matteo Matzuzzi.
In another entry from November 17, however, the anonymous blogger explained why Commissioner Volpi is so "concerned" that no Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate be incardinated in dioceses: "The very purpose of seeking incardination seems clear: it is about the creation of a platform, perhaps off shore, like the Archdiocese of Lipa in the Philippines and a Catholic minority diocese as in England, for the consecrated priests and former seminarians of the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate to newly gather in the hope of a revolution against the current management of the universal Church."
To this Cascioli's response to Commissioner Volpi was: "In other words, the blog says, you would act in concert with whom you were invited to the meeting of the Episcopal Conference to Assisi, because a plot to overthrow Pope Francis was in progress, whom the clerics and former seminarians of the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate, were together with some bishops, who were to include in their dioceses. However, this would be really laughable, if it were not someone close to you who has spread an unofficial declaration of your whole approach. I hope, therefore, that you will want to clarify this account and also the blog that speaks on your behalf ". Signed, Riccardo Cascioli.
http://eponymousflower.blogspot.it/2014/12/commissar-volpi-threatens-bishops.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+TheEponymousFlower+(The+Eponymous+Flower)

Medjugorje is not a threat to the Church

 

“Medjugorje is not a threat to the Church – but a gift,” says priest who pastored at Medjugorje for seven years.

Fr Ljubo Kurtovic OFM made a return visit to Medjugorje recently and gave this talk to english-speaking pilgrims. Transcript is by Angela Callan.
Welcome to Medjugorje!

I have been a priest for 18 years, and I have been given the grace to serve here for seven years – from 2000 to 2007.

When I came to Medjugorje first it was in 1982. I was born 50 kilometres from here and we walked all the way. I recall only the pain in my feet – I was thirteen years old. The faithful of this area always came in great numbers for the Anniversary and for the feast of the Exaltation of the Holy Cross. I never saw Our Lady, but I am a priest because of her. I was stubborn and Our Lady needed more time with me.

How is it possible that Our Lady has been appearing for so long? We cannot constrain God by our ways as this could be an obstacle to come to God. Our Lady first came holding the baby Jesus. All her messages could be summed up on that first day – she has nothing to give us but Jesus. She wants us to be happy here on earth and then with her in heaven.

There is nothing new in Our Lady’s messages. There are no extra solutions. We have Expresso coffee but there is no Expresso prayer. The messages are the Gospel said in a motherly way.

If a child is going wrong a parent forgives, loves and suffers. We are all responsible for our own life but Our Lady encourages us. The messages are prayer itself. Our Lady says, “Dear children, I respect your freedom.” Freedom is a gift of God or it is our weakness – we can also decide for the other side.

The late Fr Slavko died on November 24, 2000, at the top of Krizevac. There is a memorial there. At the time the apparitions started he was studying in Germany. He was sent to Medjugorje and desired to meet the visionaries. They answered all his questions, but none of them asked him if he believed – they left him free. God never forces and Our Lady doesn’t come with guns. Medjugorje is not a threat. It is hope. It is the open heaven.

On October 25, 2014, Our Lady said: “Be aware that your life is short and passing. Therefore, yearn for eternity and keep preparing your hearts in prayer.” Death is with us but we do not experience heaven only when we die but here on earth. After death it is already decided. Life is a basket to fill with good deeds. St Paul tells us that we live in faith, that we are not locked up inside. Faith is a personal relationship with God and we need to nourish it.

The apparitions are not opposing reason. The experts cannot say what the visionaries see, but they can say they are not sick and they are not hallucinating. That is with the help of science, but across the border faith is helping us.

If you ask me, “Do you live Our Lady’s messages?” this is the same as asking, “Do you live the Gospel?” Iwould have to answer that I could always do better. When we come to Medjugorje the most significant thing is the change of heart – conversion, to make you hearts like the hearts of Jesus and Mary. God can do this! Also pray for the conversion of other people. Many have woken up spiritually here. Some say that it seems as if life has then become harder – but that is what the Gospel tells us. If you want a pleasant life, don’t choose Our Lady as your patron. If you choose her she won’t leave you alone. It is true, because she wants what is best for us.

Our Lady has not left us alone for more than 33 years. One year after the apparitions started the visionaries asked Our Lady why she had been with them for so long, and she replied: “Why? Are you bored with me already?” Maybe we don’t appreciate the grace of the apparitions. When we are healthy we don’t appreciate it until we get sick.

What I say to pilgrims leaving Medjugorje is, “Don’t leave Our Lady here, take her home with you.” That means making a decision, taking one step to make our relationship with God more profound. We could make more time to pray, be more disciplined, visit the sick… When we are with God there is no time to rest. We can climb the hill taking small steps.

There was a small boy who started school. He told his parents it was wonderful – they had been taught to sing and learned their alphabet. There was just one problem – the teacher had said they would have to come back the next day. The hardest thing in spiritual life is perseverance. Everday life is often not pleasant or easy. We feel at home here in Medjugorje where we are loved, forgiven and embraced. God created us in love and the desire to be loved has been placed in our hearts. We cannot saisfy that desire with expensive things.
Our Lady tells us: “Dear children, if you knew how much I love you, you would cry for joy.” A man who came to Medjugorje was praying the Rosary on Apparition Hill. He read those words for the first time “cry for joy”. He felt as if a living person was saying them and he experienced the love of Our Lady. Meeting with another person is experienced when you trust. We can meet Our Lady with our spiritual eyes. God is the fullness of love. The one who carried God in her heart can guide us to God humself. Our Lady is saying to us, “Do whatever he tells you.” Medjugorje is not a threat to the Church but a gift.

Our Lady is often telling us, “This is a time of grace.” The Israelites left Egypt but there is a desert between Egypt and the Promised Land. After conversion come temptations – to go back to Egypt because there was plenty to eat there. We experience the death of loved ones, injustice, and we can ask, “Where is God? How does he allow this to happen?” The Father experienced pain when he sent his Son who had a human heart and worked with human hands. Our God is so close he took on human destiny.

Our Lady gives words we can take into our hearts and live them. Take these back home with you. John, at the foot of the Cross, accepted her for all of us. She can help us as much as our hearts are open to her.

I wish you a blessed pilgrimage and a true encounter with Our Lady.
 
http://crownofstars.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/medjugorje-is-not-threat-to-church.html

Bishop Bernard Fellay and Cardinal Walter Brandmuller have only to interpret Vatican Council II with the left hand side column and the Council is traditional on Islam and other religions

When Cardinal Walter Brandmuller and Bishop Bernard Fellay meet they could decide on one issue - Vatican Council II and other religions.It would be simple. They could  agree that Vatican Council II does not contradict the traditional interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus.So it is  traditional on the issue of Islam and other religions.
 
They both have to use the left hand side (blue) column in the interpretation of Vatican Council II.Then the Council does not contradict the Syllabus of Errors, the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and the Catechism of Pope Pius X. So the traditional teaching is affimed on Islam and other religions with respect to the dogma.The rational column is used in the interpretation instead of the present irrational interpretation of the Council with the red column.
For example :
All salvation referred to in Vatican Council II i.e saved in invincible ignorance (LG 16), good and holy things in other religions or ' a ray of the Truth' (NA 2) etc are either:
LEFT HAND COLUMN................................. RIGHT HAND COLUMN
implicit                                                           or explicit for us.
hypothetical                                                   or known in reality.
invisible                                                          or visible in the flesh.
dejure ( in principle)                                      or defacto ( in fact ).
subjective                                                       or objective.
The left hand column does not contradict extra ecclesiam nulla salus. So Vatican Council II is in agreement with the traditional teaching on Islam and the other religions. There is no known exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus in Vatican Council II.
Since there is no contradiction or exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus, all need to enter the Catholic Church in 2014-2015. All Muslims and other non Catholics need to convert into the Church with Catholic faith and the baptism of water (Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II) for salvation; to go to Heaven and avoid Hell.
The SSPX and Cardinal Walter Brandmuller have only to interpret Vatican Council II with the left hand side column and Vatican Council II ( without the red column interpretation)  is no more a break with the Church Councls, popes and saints, on Islam and  the other great  religions, which are false paths to salvation.
-Lionel Andrades
______________________________________________

SSPX has only to interpret Vatican Council II with the left hand side column and there is no break with their traditional beliefs on other religions, ecumenism and religious liberty

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/12/sspx-has-only-to-interpret-vatican.html

The Council of Trent only referred to the baptism of desire. It did not say that these cases were known and visible to us

You misrepresented Canon law.
It said "OR AT LEAST IN DESIRE is necessary" which means Baptism is not absolutely necessary as you think.
Trent used the exact wording "or at least in desire."
Lionel:
The Council of Trent only referred to the baptism of desire. It did not say that these cases were known and visible to us. So it did not say that they were defacto exceptions to all needing the baptism of water for salvation in the present times.Since if they are not known to us in personal cases they cannot be exceptions to all needing the baptism of water in the present times for salvation.
Also no where in the Council of Trent is it said that these cases are exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. If it did mention this you would have been able to quote the text.Now you are unable to do so.
I accept the baptism of desire as a hypothetical case and this hypothetical case would be followed with the baptism of water.This is only a possibility. It can only be a possibility. It cannot be otherwise. It is defacto only for God.
So for me ' or at least in desire' refers to a hypothetical subject , which I accept as a possibility, and which of course does not contradict the dogma , since the Council of Trent does not say it does and since I do not know of an any such case in 2014.
-Lionel Andrades
 

You have no magisterial document (except the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 which is contradictory and without precedent) which says there are known exceptions to the dogma http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/12/you-have-no-magisterial-document-except.html