Wednesday, January 16, 2013

More Teilhard di Chardin Reincarnation courses are being taught by Catholic priests.

After the Vatican was probably forced by the political Left to permit a Conference on Teilhard di Chardin which was held at the Pontifical Gregorian University, Rome there are now courses being offered on Teilhard Chardin by priests.

Teilhard di Chardin's theology is pure fantasy since it was based on a scientific fraud which supposed to be proof for Darwins theory of evolution.Today courses on Teilhard draw parallels with Reincarnation according to Eastern religions. This is also the message of the New Age Movement , the Masons and the Theosophical Society.

This is now advertised by Catholic Online.-Lionel Andrades


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WHERE IS THE CALL IN THE NEW EVANGELISATION TO CONVERT INTO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH OUTSIDE OF WHICH THERE IS NO SALVATION MICHAEL VORIS ASKS

I have never denied Baptism of Desire and/or Blood, as they were taught by Saint Thomas. I have said that they represent "null sets." How is that "denying" them?- Jehanne

I have never denied Baptism of Desire and/or Blood, as they were taught by Saint Thomas. I have said that they represent "null sets." How is that "denying" them?

The Catechism of the Council of Trent, 1566: wrote:

“No one can doubt that the Sacraments are among the means of attaining righteousness and salvation … A Sacrament, he [St. Augustine] says, is a sign of a sacred thing; or, as it has been expressed in other words of the same import: A Sacrament is a visible sign of an invisible grace, instituted for our justification.”

"On adults, however, the Church has not been accustomed to confer the Sacrament of Baptism at once, but has ordained that it be deferred for a certain time. The delay is not attended with the same danger as in the case of infants, which we have already mentioned; should any unforeseen accident make it impossible for adults to be washed in the salutary waters, their intention and determination to receive Baptism and their repentance for past sins, will avail them to grace and righteousness."
A set with zero members. Sure, it is possible, but I am asserting such will never happen. Are you claiming that all catechumens who die without Baptism go to Heaven?

Are you saying that there are people who are actually saved via Baptism of Desire and/or Blood without Water Baptism? Who are these people? How many? One? Two? Thousands? Millions? Billions? Are you saying that it is impossible for the One and Triune God to bring the Sacrament of Baptism via Water to these people? Are you saying that God has no choice but to save them via their desire alone???

I have no idea and I don't really care. God can regenerate and save a soul by whatever means He so desires, but never apart from or outside His Mystical Body, and never without the intrinsic necessities of faith, charity, intention and sanctifying grace.
It is just our opinion that the One and Triune God will, in every instance, save those whom He will save via Sacramental Baptism, that is, Baptism by Water.

from the Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus Forum
http://catholicforum.forumotion.com/t214-father-muller-s-the-catholic-dogma

VATICAN COUNCIL II DOES NOT CONTRADICT THE TRADITIONAL ECCLESIOLOGY WHICH TAUGHT, FOR SALVATION EVERY ONE NEEDED TO BE A VISIBLE MEMBER OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

Lionel:
'When we profess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins we are professing that our Lord instituted one sacrament of baptism for the forgiveness of sins, but we are not professing that the baptisms of blood and desire are not included in the one Baptism, for they certainly are, “in so far as they produce the effect of the Baptism of Water.' Could this also include those saved with a good conscience (LG 16),elements of sanctification (LG , seeds of the word (AG), imperfect communion with the church (UR) etc ?

So in 2013 every adult needs Catholic Faith with the baptism of water for salvation, the baptism of water being the only known and repeatable form of baptism ? There are no known exceptions to the baptism of water and Catholic Faith, for salvation?

Michael:
When we profess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins we are professing that our Lord instituted one sacrament of baptism for the forgiveness of sins, but we are not professing that the baptisms of blood and desire are not included in the one Baptism, for they certainly are, “in so far as they produce the effect of the Baptism of Water.”

Lionel:
This is one theology.There could be others.If you use the primacy of grace it could be expressed differently.Similalry, if you accept Our Lady as Co Redemptrix and Mediatrix of All Grace it is expressed differently. Though the understanding would be the same.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church (846) has the same message when it says all who are saved are saved through Jesus and the Church.

All this does not contradict extra ecclesiam nulla salus according to the traditional ecclesiology (theological understanding of Church). For salvation, every one needs to be a visible member of the Catholic Church and there are no known exceptions of invincible ignorance, implicit desire, good conscience, seeds of the word, imperfect communion with the Church, etc.

The new theology is false if one assumes there are known exceptions to the traditional understanding of Church according to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. -Lionel Andrades


from the Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus Forum. Catechism of the Catholic Church and Vatican Council II is in accord with the sedevacantist position.http://catholicforum.forumotion.com/t1001-catechism-of-the-catholic-church-and-vatican-council-ii-is-in-accord-with-the-sedevacantist-position#8561

Vatican Council II taught that one must be Catholic in order to be saved- Jehanne, Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus Forum

The Second Vatican Council, exercising its highest level of authority, in its foundational document Lumen Gentium, Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, declared:

This Sacred Council accepts with great devotion this venerable faith of our ancestors regarding this vital fellowship with our brethren who are in heavenly glory or who having died are still being purified; and it proposes again the decrees of the Second Council of Nicea, the Council of Florence and the Council of Trent... (Lumen Gentium, 51)

Of course, the Council of Florence declared/decreed:

No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church. (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.)
Now, by the Law of Non-contradiction ("a proposition cannot be affirmed and denied at the same time"), Vatican II taught that "Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ" (Lumen Gentium, 15) and the group of "Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church" (Lumen Gentium, 16) must both end their lives within "the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church".

Stating that "can an implicit desire produce its effect" (1949 Holy Office letter) simply leaves the judgment of an individual's soul to where that judgment belongs, to the One and Triune God alone.

Lumen Gentium also referenced the Holy Office letter, which stated:

We are bound by divine and Catholic faith to believe all those things which are contained in the word of God, whether it be Scripture or Tradition, and are proposed by the Church to be believed as divinely revealed, not only through solemn judgment but also through the ordinary and universal teaching office (, n. 1792).
Now, among those things which the Church has always preached and will never cease to preach is contained also that infallible statement by which we are taught that there is no salvation outside the Church.

However, this dogma must be understood in that sense in which the Church herself understands it...

Which "infallible statement"? Of course, there is only one which uses the phrase "no salvation outside the 'Catholic' Church" and that one comes from the Council of Florence, and per Vatican I:

Pope Pius IX, Vatican Council, Session 3, Chapter 4, #14, ex cathedra: "Hence, too, that meaning of the sacred dogmas is ever to be maintained which has once been declared by Holy Mother Church, and there must never be any abandonment of this sense under the pretext or in the name of a more profound understanding."

Pope Pius IX, Vatican Council, Session 3, Canon 4, ex cathedra: "If anyone says that it is possible that at some time, given the advancement of knowledge, a sense may be assigned to the dogmas propounded by the church which is different from that which the church has understood and understands: let him be anathema."
...the meaning given at Vatican II must be absolutely identical to what the Fathers at the Council of Florence understood their infallible definition to be and that same meaning (presumably) is what the 1949 Holy Office Letter is teaching us; that is, someone could be an "implicit member" of the Catholic Church, and by that very fact, be saved. However, the Holy Office letter attaches some stringent conditions to that membership:

1) "a person is involved in invincible ignorance" AND

2) "a person wishes his will to be conformed to the will of God..." AND

3) "that the desire by which one is related to the Church be animated by perfect charity" AND

4) "unless a person has supernatural faith" AND

5) "are related to the Mystical Body of the Redeemer by a certain unconscious yearning and desire."

HOWEVER, "they cannot be sure of their salvation," for how could someone ever know that which "they do not know" was "through no fault of their own"??? And, so, how could we, as traditional Catholics, "Feeneyites," etc., ever be harming someone by telling them "that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff"? Besides, if implicit faith and/or desire did not exist, at least potentially, then we, as Catholics, would be in the position where we could make judgments about the interior state of other person's soul, and of course, only the Triune God can do that! However, just because something is possible does not mean that it is probable.

… the Second Vatican Council reaffirmed the teaching of the Council of Florence which declared that "No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church."



from the Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus  Forum. Vatican II taught that one must be Catholic in order to be saved

The ADL is using the Anti Semitic law to enforce a stupid version of Vatican Council II

The Anti-Semitic law which has been placed by the ADL in many countries, is being used as a weapon against the Vatican , to accept a ludicrous version of the Council, which affirms the dead are visible to us on earth.
Anti-Defamation League
The dead man walking theory is a being officially enforced on the Vatican with threats of financial penalities etc.This is part of the Jewish Left political effort.

With no text in Vatican Council II which contradicts the traditional Catholic teaching on other religions, or ecumenism, the mainstream media which they own,claims there is such a text in the Council.

When asked for proof they cite Lumen Gentium 16. As if these cases are known to us and so are exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

Similarly, only God can know the exact number of people killed in the terrible Holocaust.So one could still be a good Catholic and wrong or right about the correct figure.Yet Bishop Richard Williamson is harassed and not allowed to be a bishop in the Catholic Church.Otherwise the Anti Semitic laws of the ADL would be used against the Church financial interests all over the world and especially the Vatican.The pope now also has to support the dead man theory.

The United Nations once equated Zionism with racism however the Jewish Left lobby had it rescinded. It is possible that the anti Semitic law can also be eliminated in the future. It is something relative.-Lionel Andrades