Monday, November 30, 2015

The issue of Cushingism as a theology, which is irrational, popular, heretical, based on a fantasy-but magisterial needs to be discussed by the Latin Mass Society

Joseph Shaw is finding it difficult to theologically discuss any of the points I raised in the previous blog posts 1. He is removing comments and has blocked me on Twitter.

Here is an article I have stumbled upon on his blog.I appreciate the work of the Latin Mass Society and I wish them well. I think they are fortunate to have Joseph Shaw with them.

September 15, 2013

What does the Latin Mass Society do? 3: Research and Campaigning


In my last two posts, I discussed the devotional activities the Latin Mass Society organises, and our training and educational initiatives. These represent a whirlwind of events: there is always something happening, or about to happen, over and above the more routine matter of supporting the celebration of the Traditional Mass week by week in parishes, which is of course a ball we can never allow to drop.
The programs are impressive. If I was there I too would have 
participated in them.

But there is another aspect of our work which is also necessary: research and campaigning. The liturgical restoration will not take place without the right side winning a number of arguments, and not without drawing facts and arguments, including the facts of the Church's law, to the attention of the Catholic public and, on occasion, of the hierarchy.


Agreed !

 If you like what we do, then show your support bybecoming a members of the LMS.
1954 ordinations detail

If seminarians are all taught and accept that Latin is a barrier to participation in the liturgy, that the priest celebrating with his 'back to the people' symbolises contempt for them, and that Chant should be rejected because it is too difficult for congregational singing, things are, quite simply, never going to improve.
 One of the reasons the liberals also do not like the 
Latin Mass is because it reminds them of the old 
ecclesiology, the Fr. Leonard Feeney's extra 
ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS). EENS is prohibited
 by the Jewish Left. It is a stumbling block
in their creation of a one world religion, in 
which all  Christian communities will be equal
 and there will be false worship of Jesus
 in a false church.

 In point of fact seminarians are today increasingly not being taught these old orthodoxies, and they are increasingly rejecting them, because the liberals have lost the argument on these issues.
 The 'old orthodoxies' have also been theologically
 removed with Cushingism. There is the new 
theology based on their being explicit 
exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla 
Even the Latin Mass Society while liturgically 
and devotionally is orthodox, theologically they
 are very liberal.
 The work of Pope Benedict, as a private theologian as well as his teaching as Pope, and that of a large number of young scholars, have made the old arguments untenable. 
I have shown in the previous two blog posts that Pope Benedict 
was using Cushingism as a theology.He rejected Feeneyism 
which was the theology of the Church for centuries.St.Ignatius 
of Loyola and St. Francis Xavier for instance were Feeneyites. 
They affirmed the strict interpretation of the dogma EENS.
This was rejected by the Jesuits after 1949 with the approval 
of Rome (Holy Office).
The old Jesuit missionaries knew that all the pagans were on
 the way to Hell. All.Cushingism says not all, but only those 
who know about Jesus and the Church and do not enter.
 This new doctrine based on an irrationality was approved
 by Pope Pius XII in 1949. For St. Francis Xavier all the 
natives in Goa, India, for example, needed to convert
 to avoid Hell. Cushingism says not all, since there could be
 known cases of the baptism of desire or pagans  living in invincible 
ignorance.So now the Jesuits say that the natives in Goa 
were saved or would be saved even if Xavier did not go 
there, since they were in invincible ignorance.
The Latin Mass societies, though they have the Mass of St.
 Francis Xavier, have the theology of Cardinal Richard 
Cushing and the Jesuits in Boston in 1949.

The old orthodoxies retain their grip on those who have not caught up with the latest thinking, however, and continue to damage the prospects of restoration.
The 'latest thinking' is Cushingism. It is the new theology 
which has come into the Church since the pontificate of 
Pope Pius XII.Prof. Joseph Shaw teaches it at Oxford
 University.If he interpreted Vatican Council II with 
Feeneyism (LG 16 etc are not exceptions to EENS), he would 
be banned by the liberal university. Cardinal Vincent Nichols 
at Westminister would asked Joseph Shaw to disassociate himself 
from the Latin Mass Society.

 When a priest suggests celebrating ad orientem, for example, he is likely to be met with opposition from the Faithful based on just those old arguments. Those ideas need to be exposed, held up to the light, and refuted, again and again and again, until the message gets through.

Nearly 14,500 adult conversions in 1960. It's about of third of that now.

This needs to be done not with angry polemic, nor with sloppy arguments from dodgy websites, but with charity, care, and scholarship. This is the thinking behind a major project of the International Federation Una Voce which has been taking up a great deal of my time over the last 18 months, as the official coordinator: the Position Papers. We now have 16 published, and I will soon be making public numbers 17 and 18. They are highly compressed, heavily footnoted, executive summaries of the arguments needed by those engaged in any kind of serious debate. No one on the internet can any more have any excuse to wheel out the old liberal canards, the discredited scholarship of 60 years ago which once seemed so daring and so unanswerable.

That, of course, is exactly what people in the Catholic press like Mgr Basil Loftus do: week after week, he recycles his old notes from 1963 as if he were delivering to his readers the latest research. There must be someone equally relentless to show it up for the nonsense it is. Because most Catholics are not liturgical scholars, and if they hear it from a Monsignor with a big column in a Catholic newspaper, they will give it the benefit of the doubt.
They have to be shown how Mgr Loftus is using Cushingism 
as a theology in his understanding of Vatican Council II, the
 Catechism of the Catholic Church and the Council of 
Trent.Without the irrationality of Cushingism he would
 be forced to be traditional and Feeneyite.

Bishop McMahon at the LMS Priest Training Conference in Leicester

So this blog itself has some role to play. But to take the battle, not so much to the enemy as to the unconverted, I and other Latin Mass Society people regularly get letters and articles, as well as news reports, into the press. If we didn't exist, if we weren't supported by our network, if we didn't have expertise to call on and volunteers to help with research, and if we weren't given some standing by the fact of our representing a large organisation, this would be impossible, and the traditional and conservative point of view would be vastly less well represented and less well argued in the UK.
However the issue of Cushingism as a theology, which is 
irrational, popular, heretical, based on a fantasy-but 
magisterial needs to be discussed.

In the year or so after the Motu Proprio, letters to the Catholic Herald pointing out the bleedin' obvious seemed to be necessary practically every week. It has been quieter since then. In the last twelve months I've had only five letters published in the Catholic Herald, and a feature article; I've had two letters each in the Universe, the Catholic Times, and the Tablet, and done a guest post on the Tablet blog. I have spoken to four different sets of journalists on various stories, and contributed a short story to Oremus, the Westminster Cathedral magazine, and pieces for Te Deum Laudamus, andThe Latin Mass Magazine. I have also been interviewed for the on-line Regina Magazineand (bizarrely) a Polish radio station.
 But it is a projection of the Latin Mass with the new
 ecclesiology and a rejection of the old ecclesiology,
 with which this Mass is associated.

Bishop Mark Davis at the LMS Walsingham Pilgrimage in 2012

To repeat: it is the Latin Mass Society which makes this possible. A good illustration is the research we did on the number of ordinations over the decades. Having seen some dubious claims being made in public, we are able to put a team of volunteers (including me) into one of the very few places in the country with the entire set of Catholic Directories, and get the necessary research done in a couple of weeks. The work we did took many, many man-hours, a bit of money, some good friends and some zealous supporters. The Latin Mass Society had the will and the means to do it: if we hadn't it wouldn't have happened. And the idea that more priests were ordained this year than in the 1950s would probably still be out there in public.

A different kind of campaigning goes on behind closed doors. We enjoy good relations with the hierarchy, at the human level, and we always have, despite our disagreements. 
 The hierarchy in England and Wales interprets Vatican 
Council II with Cushingism. The priest has to use an 
irrationality( the dead-saved in Heaven are visible on earth
and they are saved without the baptism of water in the
 Catholic  Church). The priest then has to infer that this ghost 
which he allegedly sees is an exception to the old ecclesiology
 associated with the Traditional Latin Mass. It is only then 
that the bishops will allow him to offer the old Mass.
Similarly the hierarchy will only permit Joseph Shaw and 
Thomas Pink to teach theology as Catholics if they affirm
 Cushingism ( there are exceptions to the dogma EENS) and 
reject Feeneyism ( there are no known exceptions to the
 dogma EENS).
If you ask any one in England, 'Where are these exceptions?', 
'Who are they?','Where do they live?' the answer will 
draw a blank. Yet every member of the Latin Mass Society has to 
 say there  are exceptions to the dogma EENS, to remain in good 

Over the last year or so Mass has been celebrated for us by Bishop Hopes, the new Bishop of East Anglia, Bishop John Arnold, an auxiliary Bishop of Westminster, and Bishop McMahon in his own diocese of Northampton.
All of them offer Mass with Cushingism which contradicts the
 Nicene Creed ( I believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of
 sin and not three known baptisms )and  rejects the dogma EENS. 
They  interpret  Vatican Council II with an irrationality and then 
conclude that that the Council is a a break with Tradition. They
reject the dogmatic teaching on the infallibility of the popes ex 
cathedra ( in defining EENS). 
This heresy is an impediment to offering the Latin Mass or
 the Novus Ordo Mass.
 Bishop Drainey of Middlesbrough and Bishop Davis of Shrewsbury have been present at our Masses, a couple of years ago Archbishop Longley of Birmingham was.
They approve the Latin Mass Society since it is a part
 of the liberal establishment. They have a common 
theology in  evangelisation, soteriology, ecclesiology
and worship.
 We talk to and exchange letters with bishops both in relation to matters in their dioceses and in relation to their responsibilities in the Bishops' Conference.
This is good but they are never told to affirm traditional 
Feeneyism and reject irrational and heretical 
Cushingism since this would be the end of the dialogue.
I know, since I was a seminarian at the Beda Pontifical 
College  in Rome, the Catholic seminary for late vocations 
under the bishops of England and Wales.Msgr. Roderick 
Strange the  Rector, when I was there, is still there.
 He is a liberal, as the  other English bishops educated 
at Oxford. He is a  Cushingite as is Cardinal Vincet Nichols.
 They would never support Feeneyism and oppose the Left.
So they should be pleased with the theology of the Latin
 Mass Society.

 We are also in touch with a good many different persons and departments in Rome. This kind of thing is only possible if you represent some organisation with some kind of standing, if there is continuity over many years, and if you have some kind of office support. 
...and if you accept the contemporary magisterium's heretical
 position and do not call it heresy.
No lay person, no priest, could keep this kind of dialogue up consistently. We can do it, not because we are heroes, but because there is a structure to keep it going.
Lionel :
The structure supports the old Mass with the 
new irrational and heretical theology supported by the 
contemporary magisterium.

Bishop Terence Drainey at the LMS York Pilgrimage 2012

Something else we have is a database: of priests who say the Extraordinary Form, and of laity who want it. 
In the database there is no known priest, I am sure,
 who supports Feeneyism as a theology and offers the 
traditional  Latin Mass.
On several occasions in the last year or so we have had non-public campaigns which have involved getting in touch with large numbers of priests or, in a particular part of the country, with our lay supporters, to seek their views or support for a specific initiative. 
They have never been asked if Cushingism is heresy 
and should be rejected as non Catholic, even though it is 
supported by the contemporary magisterium.

These tasks used up enormous amounts of office and volunteer time, and they would  have been simply impossible without our network of supporters, our database, and the administrative support the Office gives us. We are probably never going to get any public credit for these things, but if you'll take my word for it they were important and successful. If the Latin Mass Society hadn't existed, these things would not have happened.

Does the Latin Mass Society do anything useful? Yes, we do. If you are at all interested in dealing in a positive way with the aftermath of the 'collapse of the liturgy' which Pope Benedict spoke about as Cardinal Ratzinger, then it must be pretty difficult to say that we don't have a positive role to play. We can't do this without support. Forget your prejudices about not wanting to join things, or about what happened twenty years ago, or whatever it is which stops you joining, and join the Latin Mass Society!
The Latin Mass Society like the those associated
 with the Novus Ordo Mass,  unintentionally promotes 
liberalism, irrationality, heresy, non traditional and 
innovative doctrines.Also when this charge is 
made no one denies it. -Lionel Andrades


Joseph Shaw removes comment : maintains 

Cushingite image

Questions for Dr.Joseph Shaw : answers from me

Dr.Joseph Shaw  has posted a comment on his blog for me.
I am so bored by your irrelevant comments on my posts
 that I am going to delete them systematically from now on.

In the past Joseph Shaw has said I am 'rude' and now he
is saying he is 'bored' but  the professor of theology
 will not comment theology-wise on what I write.- Lionel

A Vision Of The Torments Of Hell (video)

A Vision Of The Torments Of Hell


By A Customer on Nov. 5 1999
Hell and How to Avoid Hell by Thomas A. Nelson
(Amazon Books)
This book is an absolute must for everyone, regardless if you are Christian or not! You will not be able to put the book down as it captivates you with an absolutely overwhelming feeling of fear and terror. It really causes you to re-evaluate your own conscience and whether or not you are on the path to heaven. This book is especially needed for those who do not know Jesus Christ and for those that do know Him but think they are "once saved always saved." The Bible clearly states that we must accept Christ into our lives in order to be saved from the fires of Hell, but we must also "work out our salvation with nervous trembling." This book discusses these points in great detail as well as many other important biblical facts about Heaven, Hell, and salvation. It's a must buy!
A young Korean artist taken to Hell. Drew pictures of it.
Immagine correlata

The entrance it seems to me was similar to a very long and narrow alleyway, like an oven, low and dark and confined; the floor seemed to me to consist of dirty, muddy water emitting foul stench and swarming with putrid vermin...The bodily pains were so unbearable that though I had suffered excruciating ones in this life and according to what doctors say, the worst that can be suffered on earth for all my nerves were shrunken when I was paralyzed, plus many other sufferings of many kinds that I endured and even some as I said, caused by the devil, these were all nothing in comparison with the ones I experienced there...-St.Teresa of Avila's description of Hell.

Immagine correlata
These are the Tortures suffered by all the damned together, but that is not the end of the sufferings. https://youtu.e/_La-_wEJ4Fk
There are special Tortures destined for particular souls. These are the torments of the senses. Each soul undergoes terrible and indescribable sufferings related to the manner in which it has sinned.
I would have diedThere are caverns and pits of torture where one form of agony differs from another. I would have died at the very sight of these tortures if the omnipotence of God had not supported me...-St.Faustina Kowalska's description of Hell.

"Then I was pushed into one of those fiery cavities and pressed, as it were, between burning planks, and sharp nails and red-hot irons seemed to be piercing my flesh."

Here Josefa repeated the multiple tortures from which no single member of the body is excluded:

"I felt as if they were endeavoring to pull out my tongue, but could not. This torture reduced me to such agony that my very eyes seemed to be starting out of their sockets. I think this was because of the fire which burns, burns... not a finger-nail escapes terrifying torments, and all the time one cannot move even a finger to gain some relief, nor change posture, for the body seems flattened out and yet doubled in two.-Sr.Joseph Menendez's description of Hell.
There was a certain rich man, who was clothed in purple and fine linen; and feasted sumptuously every day. And there was a certain beggar, named Lazarus, who lay at his gate, full of sores,
Desiring to be filled with the crumbs that fell from the rich man' s table, and no one did give him; moreover the dogs came, and licked his sores. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham' s bosom. And the rich man also died: and he was buried in hell. And lifting up his eyes when he was in torments, he saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom: And he cried, and said: Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, to cool my tongue: for I am tormented in this flame. And Abraham said to him: Son, remember that thou didst receive good things in thy lifetime, and likewise Lazareth evil things, but now he is comforted; and thou art tormented.

And besides all this, between us and you, there is fixed a great chaos: so that they who would pass from hence to you, cannot, nor from thence come hither. And he said: Then, father, I beseech thee, that thou wouldst send him to my father' s house, for I have five brethren, That he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torments. And Abraham said to him: They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. But he said: No, father Abraham: but if one went to them from the dead, they will do penance.
And he said to him: If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they believe, if one rise again from the dead. -Luke :19-31, The Rich Man (Dives) and Lazarus.
Second Circle (Lust)

Gianciotto Discovers Paolo and Francesca
In the second circle of Hell are those overcome by lust. Dante condemns these "carnal malefactors"[ for letting their appetites sway their reason. They are the first ones to be truly punished in Hell. These souls are blown back and forth by the terrible winds of a violent storm, without rest. This symbolizes the power of lust to blow one about needlessly and aimlessly.
In this circle, Dante sees
Semiramis, Dido, Cleopatra, Helen of Troy, Achilles, Paris, Tristan, and many others who were overcome by sexual love during their life. Dante is told byFrancesca da Rimini how she and her husband's brother Paolo Malatesta committed adultery, but then died a violent death, in the name of Love, at the hands of her husband, Giovanni (Gianciotto). Francesca reports that their act of adultery was triggered by reading the adulterous story of Lancelot and Guinevere (an episode sculpted by Auguste Rodin in The Kiss). Nevertheless, she predicts that her husband will be punished for his fratricidein Caïna, within the ninth circle (Canto V).
Alse see Dante's experience in Hell in The Divine Comedy( Inferno).



It contains in it, after the Preparatory Prayer and two Preludes, five Points and one Colloquy:
Prayer. Let the Preparatory Prayer be the usual one.
First Prelude. The first Prelude is the composition, which is here to see with the sight of the imagination the length, breadth and depth of Hell.
Second Prelude. The second, to ask for what I want: it will be here to ask for interior sense of the pain which the damned suffer, in order that, if, through my faults, I should forget the love of the Eternal Lord, at least the fear of the pains may help me not to come into sin.
First Point. The first Point will be to see with the sight of the imagination the great fires, and the souls as in bodies of fire.
Second Point. The second, to hear with the ears wailings, howlings, cries, blasphemies against Christ our Lord and against all His Saints.
Third Point. The third, to smell with the smell smoke, sulphur, dregs and putrid things.
Fourth Point. The fourth, to taste with the taste bitter things, like tears, sadness and the worm of conscience.
Fifth Point. The fifth, to touch with the touch; that is to say, how the fires touch and burn the souls.
Colloquy. Making a Colloquy to Christ our Lord, I will bring to memory the souls that are in Hell, some because they did not believe the Coming, others because, believing, they did not act according to His Commandments; making three divisions...
- The Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius of Loyola, [1914]
People that died and saw hell. Video Testimonies of Hell

Atheist College Professor dies and sees hell and demons - it changed his life