The traditional-liberal division in the Church has ended.
When I say that LG 8,14,15,16,UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc in Vatican Council II refer
to invisible cases in 2024 and so are not
objective exceptions for the ecclesiocentrism of the Church my allies
are Nicole Winfield, Michael Sean Winters and Massimo Faggioli. There is no denial from even Cardinal Victor Manuel Fernandez, Prefect of the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith, Vatican.
Even at the University of St. Thomas Aquinas the
Dominican Sisters on the faculty have to agree that LG 8,14,15,16 etc refer to
only hypothetical cases. So they are not practical exceptions for the dogma
extra ecclesiam nulla salus of the Fourth Lateran Council 1215. This was the Council of Pope Honorius
III who approved their community, the Order of Preachers.
Sr. Helen Burns op and Sr. Catherine Joseph Droste op at the
Angelicum University in Rome, formerly on the faculty, are now affirming the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, like me,
based upon a rational interpretation of Vatican Council II. It would be the same for the presnt Dean of Theology at the Angeliucm Fr. Dominik Jurczak op and the rest of the faculty.
They are affirming the Nicene Creed, which says “We
acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins”. They are aware that non
Christians are outside the Church without the baptism of water and Catholic Faith. 1
They are interpreting all the Catechisms rationally
and so affirm the Catechism of Pope Pius X (24Q, 27Q) on other religions not
being paths to salvation. Vatican Council II will no more contradict this
Catechism for them.
They are affirming the Council of Florence (1442) on
the dogma outside the Church there is no salvation in harmony with the
Catechism of the Catholic Church (845,846).
So for them Vatican Council II and the Catechism of
the Catholic Church are not a break with the exclusivist ecclesiology of the Middle
Ages. They are back to the old theology of St. Dominic Guzman .
It means for them Judaism and Islamism are not paths
to salvation and their members need Catholic Faith and the baptism of water for
salvation from Hell.
Like for the present pope, the cardinals and bishops,
for them too, the liberal-traditionalist division has ended since the Council is
no more liberal.
Politically they may feel uncomfortable with this
traditional doctrinal and theological position after so many years with a liberal and irrational interpretation of Vatican Council.However they are restricted by
Vatican Council II. The Council can only
be interpreted rationally to be Magisterial and the conclusion is traditional.
It is orthodox and ecclesiocentric. So ex-liberals have no option but to support the past ecclesiocentrism of the Catholic Church. It is the
same for the Lefebvrists. They have to interpret Vatican Council II ethically
and admit that Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre made a mistake, as did the popes from
Paul VI to Francis.
-Lionel Andrades
https://angelicum.it/teologia/
_____________________________________________________
1
FEBRUARY 22, 2023
But if there are
exceptions for EENS then the Nicene Creed is saying 1) there are three or more
baptisms, 2) they are physically visible for them to be exceptions for EENS,
and 3) they exclude the baptism of water and so are practical exceptions for
EENS. 4) So EENS is obsolete since there are known exceptions
Anyone who
interprets Vatican Council II irrationally is changing the Creeds. Since the
False Premise and Inference, creates new doctrines.
The False
Premise creates alleged objective exceptions for the Nicene Creed, ‘
I believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sins’.
With the False
Premise the Nicene Creed is changed to, “ I believe in three or more
known and visible baptisms, people seen saved without faith and the baptism of
water. They are saved instead with the baptism of desire, invincible ignorance
etc”. The baptism of water, which is physically visible, is
changed into three or more known baptisms, also physically visible.This is a new doctrine.
They would have
to be known baptisms otherwise they could
not be exceptions for the strict interpretation of the dogma extra
ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS).So officially there are
exceptions for EENS.It is now : outside the Catholic Church
there is known salvation. This is a new doctrine.Invisible cases cannot be
visible and known exceptions for EENS.So it is implied that these are physically visible cases.
Everyone does
not need to be a member of the Church for salvation, as it was taught by the
missionaries in the 16th century.This is new doctrine.It comes from the 1949
Letter of the Holy Office to the Archbishop of Boston.
This big
change comes only when LG 8, !4, and 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc
are confused as visible non Catholics saved
outside the Catholic Church in the present times (1965-2023). Then there are
exceptions for EENS.
But if
there are exceptions for EENS then the Nicene Creed is saying 1) there are
three or more baptisms, 2) they are
physically visible for them to be exceptions for EENS, and 3) they
exclude the baptism of water and so are practical exceptions for EENS. 4) So EENS
is obsolete since there are known exceptions.- Lionel
Andrades
1
NICENE CREED
We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is seen and
unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus
Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the
Father,
God from God, Light from
Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, one in
Being with the Father.
Through him all things were
made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy
Spirit
he was born of the Virgin
Mary, and became man.
For our sake he was crucified
under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered, died, and was
buried.
On the third day he rose again
in fulfillment of the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right
hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to
judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no
end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father
and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he
is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the
Prophets.
We believe in one holy
catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for
the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection
of the dead
and the life of the world to come. Amen.
DECEMBER 17, 2022
The basic issue which I keep writing about here is philosophical and not theological.
https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2022/12/the-basic-issue-which-i-keep-writing.html
The Nicene Creed was changed with the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 mistake : it was approved by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger
MARCH 9, 2021
The Creeds are no more a sign of unity in the Catholic Church since there can be two interpretations.
Someone placed copies of the Apostles Creed on the table at the entrance of the church where I went for Holy Mass today in Italian.
The Creeds are no more a sign of unity in the Church since there can be two interpretations. The line marked in red is now controversial.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints..- Apostles Creed
The confusion came into the Church during the Fr. Leonard Feeney case when unknown cases of the baptism of desire(BOD) and being saved in invincible ignorance(I.I) were considered objective exceptions to the strict interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
So the New Theology said there is salvation outside the Church; known salvation, while the past Magisterium would state over the centuries that outside the Church there is no salvation.
So for me,the the Holy Spirit teaches the Catholic Church today ( Ad Gentes 7, Catechism of the Catholic Church 846 etc) that outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation and all must accept Jesus and his teachings in the Catholic Church to avoid Hell and go to Heaven.
While for other Catholics in church the new teaching is that the Holy Spirit teaches the Church today that outside the Church there is salvation and all do not need to be members of the Church ,to go to Heaven and avoid Hell.
For me being in communion with the saints means affirming the past interpretation of the baptism of desire and invincible ignorance which was rational. It did not contradict the strict interpretation of EENS.
Those who recite the Apostles Creed in the Church today are in a rupture theologically and doctrinally with the Apostles, the Church Fathers, the saints of the Middle Ages and the saints before the 1940s like St. Maximillian Kolbe who held the strict interpretation of EENS and affirmed the Athanasius Creed too.
Most Catholics are in a break with the saints, since today they interpret BOD and I.I as practical exceptions to EENS. Catholics have to choose to believe in BOD and I.I or EENS. So they contradict the past saints.
I can accept both-BOD and I.I and EENS- and I do not have to choose. The BOD and I.I are invisible cases for me in 2021 but the rest of the Church implies that they are visible. So they become practical exceptions to Feeneyite EENS for them.
For me the Letter of the Holy Office 1949(LOHO) made an objective mistake which was overlooked at Vatican Council II. The present two popes and many traditionalists, accept the LOHO with the mistake and do not correct it.
The Nicene Creed affirms the necessity of the baptism of water for the forgiveness of sins and the Athanasius Creed says outside the Church there is no salvation.-Lionel Andrades
https://lifeteen.com/blog/why-do-catholics-pray-the-creed/
__________________________
FEBRUARY 2, 2020
Cardinal Ratzinger is a Cushingite and has interpreted the Nicene Creed with a false premise and inference which was not the understanding of the past centuries.Ignatius Press has published Credo for Today addressed to Christians and not Catholics. The Nicene Creed can be interpreted with Feeneyism or Cushingism and the conclusion would be different.
Cardinal Ratzinger is a Cushingite and has interpreted the Nicene Creed with a false premise and inference which was not the understanding of the past centuries.Ignatius Press has published Credo for Today addressed to Christians and not Catholics.
- Nicene Creed (10)
- Nicene Creed was changed with the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 mistake (6)
- Nicene Creed-two interpretations (1)
FEBRUARY 2, 2020
FEBRUARY 22, 2023
But if there are exceptions for EENS then the Nicene Creed is saying 1) there are three or more baptisms, 2) they are physically visible for them to be exceptions for EENS, and 3) they exclude the baptism of water and so are practical exceptions for EENS. 4) So EENS is obsolete since there are known exceptions
Anyone who interprets Vatican Council II irrationally is changing the Creeds. Since the False Premise and Inference, creates new doctrines.
The False Premise creates alleged objective exceptions for the Nicene Creed, ‘ I believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sins’.
With the False Premise the Nicene Creed is changed to, “ I believe in three or more known and visible baptisms, people seen saved without faith and the baptism of water. They are saved instead with the baptism of desire, invincible ignorance etc”. The baptism of water, which is physically visible, is changed into three or more known baptisms, also physically visible.This is a new doctrine.
They would have to be known baptisms otherwise they could not be exceptions for the strict interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS).So officially there are exceptions for EENS.It is now : outside the Catholic Church there is known salvation. This is a new doctrine.Invisible cases cannot be visible and known exceptions for EENS.So it is implied that these are physically visible cases.
Everyone does not need to be a member of the Church for salvation, as it was taught by the missionaries in the 16th century.This is new doctrine.It comes from the 1949 Letter of the Holy Office to the Archbishop of Boston.
This big change comes only when LG 8, !4, and 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc are confused as visible non Catholics saved outside the Catholic Church in the present times (1965-2023). Then there are exceptions for EENS.
But if there are exceptions for EENS then the Nicene Creed is saying 1) there are three or more baptisms, 2) they are physically visible for them to be exceptions for EENS, and 3) they exclude the baptism of water and so are practical exceptions for EENS. 4) So EENS is obsolete since there are known exceptions.- Lionel Andrades
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