Wednesday, September 14, 2011

THE CATHOLIC CHURCH DOES SAY THAT A CATEGORY OF PEOPLE ARE ORIENTED TO HELL

The Franciscan Friar of the Immaculate Bro.Peter Julian whom I met at the bus top last Tuesday (Sept.6, 2011) said that the Church does not say anyone is condemned to Hell.

The Church tells us that a category of people are oriented to Hell I mentioned. Vatican Council II (AG 7, LG 14) tells us that those who know about Jesus and the Church and yet do not enter are oriented to Hell. This would mean millions of people in modern cities.

Redemptoris Missio 55 tells us that non Catholic religions are not the ordinary means of salvation and this must be remembered in inter religious dialogue. This is saying millions of non Catholics are on the path to Hell or already are there since they have not converted.

Vatican Council II (AG 7, LG 14) indicates that the ordinary means of salvation is the Catholic Faith and the baptism of water. All people need to convert into the Church. This means the majority of people in the present times are lost if they do not convert while billions have died without Catholic Faith and the baptism of water and are in Hell. If there was anyone saved for some reason it would be known to God only. In general however they are lost.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church 1257 says that the Church knows of no means to eternal beatitude other than the baptism of water. So billions of non Catholics are lost to Hell for all eternity.

Dominus Iesus 20 says salvation is available for all people but to receive it all need to enter the Church. So the Church is necessary for salvation. One cannot choose to save oneself with invincible ignorance since it is a special grace given by God. One cannot administer it like the baptism of water. A person can enter the Church visibly through the baptism of water and with Catholic Faith. So Dominus Iesus is saying many today are on the path to Hell.

The dogma Cantate Domino, Council of Florence specifies the non Catholics who are on the way to Hell, a Hell which has fire.

In the Bible Jesus tells us that the path to Hell is wide and most people take it.

‘Those who do not believe will be condemned ' says Jesus (Mk.16:16) The Bible indicates billions of people are lost.

So the Catholic Church does tell us the conditions for going to Hell in the faith and moral teachings of the Bible, Tradition and Magisterium.

Non Catholics and non Christians are in general on the path to Hell. (Vatican Council II, Cantate Domino, Catechism of the Catholic Church etc)
-Lionel Andrades
NATIVE AMERICANS BEFORE THE MISSIONARIES WENT THERE WERE ORIENTED TO HELL SINCE VATICAN COUNCIL II INDICATES CATHOLIC FAITH AND THE BAPTISM OF WATER IS THE ORDINARY WAY OF SALVATION

Poor, poor Vatican Council II!


It is said Vatican Council II contradicts the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus with Lumen Gentium 16 (invincible ignorance).

I usually have to point out that those saved in invincible ignorance are not known to us but only to God. So how can it contradict the Church teaching that everyone on earth needs to be a visible member of the Church for salvation?

Then it is said that every one needs to enter the Church except for those non Catholics with the baptism of desire or who are in invincible ignorance.

Every one needs to enter the Church according to Lumen Gentium 14, Ad Gentes 7 true and we do not know any case of someone saved in the present times with the baptism of desire or in invincible ignorance.

Then it is said that Vatican Council II also says that a person can be saved with a good conscience or in partial communion with the Church.

Yes we accept in principle that a person can be saved with a good conscience etc but we do not know any explicit case in the present times so it does not contradict the dogma, the saints, the popes, the Church Fathers and Fr. Leonard Feeney ; every one needs to be a visible member of the Church for salvation, to go to Heaven and avoid Hell.

Then it is said Vatican Council II has caused a revolution in the Church and changed Church teaching with reference to the dogma outside the church there is no salvation.

Where is the text for this claim? None. There is no such reference.

Nostra Aetate says non Catholics can be saved.

There is no text in Nostra Aetate which says non Catholics in general can be saved in their religion or that their religion is an equal path to salvation as is the Catholic Church.

If any non Catholic is saved it would be known only to Jesus. The ordinary means of salvation according to Vatican Council II (LG 14 etc) is Catholic Faith and the baptism of water.

The American Natives were in invincible ignorance and saved before the Catholic missionaries went there we now know.

Catholic Faith and the baptism of water is the ordinary way of salvation (Vatican Council II). Invincible ignorance is not the ordinary way of salvation.

Those saved in invincible ignorance, the baptism of desire, good conscience etc are exceptions and known only to God.

In general the American Natives were lost according to Vatican Council II

Vatican Council II says Jews are the Chosen People of God.

There is no such text. Ad Gentes 7 indicates Catholic Faith and the baptism of water are needed for all people to avoid Hell. So Catholics are the Chosen People. They are the people of the New Covenant which is everlasting. They are followers of the Promised Jewish Messiah. They have the Sacrifice which is eternal in the Holy Mass.

Poor, poor Vatican Council! The things that are said in your name!?
-Lionel Andrades