Wednesday, November 20, 2013

Waiting for the SSPX priest...

I am still waiting for an SSPX priest to show me the text in Vatican Council II which says there are known exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.He agrees that possibilities are not exceptions and there are no known exceptions in 2013.So where in the text does it say there are known exceptions to the dogma? How can this be implied if there is no supporting text?
 
I am still waiting for his answer. Since if he agrees that there are no exceptions mentioned in Vatican Council II then the SSPX position on other religions and Christian communities is that of Vatican Council II.They are in accord with Vatican Council II. The Council will be traditional for them.There would not be opposition to Vatican Council II on these two points.They would also be putting an end to false propaganda on Vatican Council II.
 

Imam converts to Christianity, father holds knife to him and threatens to kill him, builds gravestone for him in Muslim cemetery

Imam converts to Christianity, father holds knife to him and threatens to kill him, builds gravestone for him in Muslim cemetery

MarioJoseph.jpgThe courageous Mario Joseph

Muhammad said: "Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him" (Bukhari 9.84.57). The death penalty for apostasy is part of Islamic law according to all the schools of Islamic jurisprudence. So Joseph's father was just being pious, you greasy Islamophobe.
"Imam embraces Christianity," from Pravoslavie, November 15 (thanks to Filip):
The Linga portal with the reference to the Spanish radio station Сadena Сope tells about the joys and tragedies of a young man who turned to Christianity from Islam.Mario Joseph was born in an ordinary Muslim Indian family. His father prepared him—the third among six brothers—as a spiritual leader: thus, aged 10, Mario entered a Koranic school, and when he returned from it at the age of 18, he became an Imam-khatib in a local village Mosque.
However, the young man turned to Christ, and this choice made him a target even for his own father who, having known about his son's conversion to another faith, threatened to kill him. Moreover, his father erected a gravestone in advance in a local Muslim cemetery with the epitaph containing the young man’s name and date of birth.
The Spanish radio station Сadena Сope managed to talk with this young Catholic preacher and learn certain facts from the history of his tremendous trials.
"From age 18, I was an imam and regularly delivered sermons,” begins Joseph. “One Friday I was fervently talking about Isa al-Masih [Jesus the Messiah], saying that He was not Allah. When I finished my speech, someone asked me: "But, after all, who is the Messiah?" On that day I could not find a proper answer; my knowledge in this sphere was extremely poor".
Again and again Mario returned to the Koran, to the Muslim Holy Tradition (the Sunna), to various commentaries of the exegetes of authority, but could not find the answer. To the contrary, he noticed instead that the only woman's name mentioned in the Koran, was the Name of the Most Holy Mary; moreover, according to tradition Muhammad died, while Isa was taken to Heaven alive. "Then, after long thought, I decided to leave the dead one and to follow the Living one," explained the young man.
According to Mario, the choice was not an easy one: "Before making the final decision, I besought the Lord for a long time to give me true guidance... Once, still hesitating, I opened the Koran, and I came across the following ayah (inexact translation): "If you doubt what we granted to you, then ask those who read the Scriptures before you. The Truth from your Lord has come to you; so do not be among those hesitant!" Then I started reading the Bible, and upon its completion I was absolutely convinced of truthfulness of the Christian Scriptures; and at last found my God-Redeemer!"
Knowing that apostasy in the Muslim law is punished by the death penalty, Joseph ran away from his home to the nearest Catholic educational center.
However, the father found the young man, and after beating him violently, he locked him naked, bound hand and foot, without food, in one of the rooms in his house for 28 days.
"When I opened my eyes, I saw my father, holding a knife in his hands,” remembers Mario. “I was sure that he would kill me, as he was a Muslim-Wahhabi... He asked me: do I still accept Christ? When I said "yes", I was literally blinded by a bright light that gave me strength. Immediately I cried loudly: "Jesus!"... The light disappeared and I saw that my father had fallen down and caught himself on his own knife (Glory to God, though the injury was deep and bleeding, it was not dangerous), and saliva was flowing from his mouth. Relatives at once took him to the hospital and in their hurry left the door open. I took advantage of the opportunity, freed myself and ran away back to the educational center".
The young man firmly believes that a true miracle occurred to him: "This light gave me who am by nature weak and thin, then exhausted and hungry, enormous strength and endurance... Nevertheless, I still cannot recover from ulcers that appeared as a result of prolonged confinement".
Since then Mario Joseph has not returned to his native village, where the gravestone with his name and date of birth still stands...-Jihad Watch
 http://www.jihadwatch.org/
 

5th Marian Dogma

Doug Lawrence's webblog has a Sunni website saying Farakkans are not Muslims

Lawrence still cannot affirm the Catholic Faith with respect to Islam.
 
On the other hand where is the report or article for him to use on his webblog? It is not on the website of the Conference of Catholic Bishops of England and Wales and the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB).They  consider being saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire as known exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.Then some cardinals (Kaspar,Bertone) have said in an article in the L'Osservatore Romano that this is the ordinary means of salvation.They did this to please the Chief Rabbinate of Israel.
Baptism of desire is the ordinary means of salvation! It is not 'faith and baptism'(AG 7) for them.
 
This is their irrational reasoning:-

False Premise : We can physically see , know a Protestant in 2013 saved as such.
Conclusion:
Cases of imperfect communion with the Church are visible to us so they are known exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
Without the False Premise: UR 3 refers to a possibility known only to God. Since it is unknown to us it cannot be an exception to the dogma on exclusive salvation.
False Premise: We can physically see, know a Jew or Hindu who is 'good and holy' and is saved in 2013.
Conclusion:
Cases of good and holy non Catholics who are saved or going to be saved, are known exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
Without the False Premise: NA 2 is a possibility , a hypothetical case. It is irrelevant to the dogma on salvation.
False Premise: Those saved with the ' seeds of the Word' (AG 11 etc) are personally known to us. We can meet them.
Conclusion: Since these cases are personally known to us , they are visible exceptions to the dogma outside the church there is no salvation.
Without the False Premise: There are no known exceptions to the traditional teaching on other religions.NA 2 is not one of them.
 
Here is their interpretation. They will choose irrational Cushingism:

1. VATICAN COUNCIL II
Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door. Therefore those men cannot be saved, who though aware that God, through Jesus Christ founded the Church as something necessary, still do not wish to enter into it, or to persevere in it."Therefore though God in ways known to Himself can lead those inculpably ignorant of the Gospel to find that faith without which it is impossible to please Him (Heb. 11:6), yet a necessity lies upon the Church (1 Cor. 9:16), and at the same time a sacred duty, to preach the Gospel...-Ad Gentes 7,Vatican Council II.
FEENEYISM (rational): The orange text does not contradict the text in yellow since the cases referred to are defacto not known to us, personally .We do not know and cannot know these cases. So they are not exceptions to the literal interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
CUSHINGISM( irrational): The orange text contradicts the text in yellow .It is assumed that thse cases are known to us in the present times. We can see the dead who are known exceptions to the literal interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus according to Fr.Leonard Feeney.
2.CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
 
"Outside the Church there is no salvation"  
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:  
 
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.-Catechism of the Catholic Church 846 
FEENEYISM (rational): The orange text does not contradict the text in yellow since the cases referred to are defacto not known to us, personally .We do not know and cannot know these cases. So they are not exceptions to the literal interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. 
CUSHINGISM( irrational): The orange text contradicts the text in yellow .It is assumed that thse cases are known to us in the present times. We can see the dead who are known exceptions to the literal interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus according to Fr.Leonard Feeney. -Lionel Andrades


Ecclesiology does not depend on liturgy in Rome

Mons. Ignacio Barreiro, Fr.Joseph Kramer FSSP and Fr.Francesco Giordano will not affirm the 'old ecclesiology' in public in Rome.
 
They offer the Tridentine Rite Mass in Rome and affirm the 'new ecclesiology' even after being infomed. Neither will they provide their name and telephone number , for any one who wants information about the teachings of the Catholic Church.They will not provide this information for a pamphlet which says the Catholic Church teaches that Islam and the other religions are not paths to salvation. They call it being prudent. They mean this in a worldly sense.
They do not want to be persecuted while they will persecute any one who affirms the 'old ecclesiology' and the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
 
Vatican Council II is in accord with the dogma on exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church and the position of Fr.Leonard Feeney. They are not going to say this in public.
So here we have the ecclesiology not being dependent on the Traditional Latin Mass as the SSPX believes it is.
Then there are priests who offer the Novus Ordo Mass in Rome who affirm the dogma on salvation in agreement with Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church.They support the 'old ecclesiology'. The new ecclesioology would be irrational since it is based on an irrational premise. It uses the dead man walking and visible  theory.
 
So ecclesiology, here depends on the use or omission of a false premise in the interpretation of magisterial documents.This is independent of the liturgy.
-Lionel Andrades

Ecclesiology is not dependent on the liturgy

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Photos of the Traditional Latin Mass at St.Peter's Basilica whose participants assume there are known exceptions to the old ecclesiology in Vatican Council II and so support the 'new ecclesiology' with the false premise.