Monday, June 15, 2015
On Forward Boldly,the blog talk show Christine Niles interviews Brother Andre Marie MICM and neither of the two could say that Vatican Council II is Feeneyite and that it affirms the rigorist interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS).
It's like Michael Voris also saying that he also affirms outside the Church there is no salvation but every one does not need to be a card carrying member of the Church.
Who do they know in Detroit who is in Heaven this month without Catholic Faith and the baptism of water?
Brother Andre Marie was vague on Vatican Council II and is still using Marchetti's inference to interpret the Council.He could not say that Vatican Council II is not vague for him and that it affirms the Feeneyite version of the dogma.
It was interesting listening to them. We need more interviews of Brother Andre Marie, the Prior of the St. Benedict Center, Richmond, New Hampshire. We need more discussion on this subject which is related to the Traditional Latin Mass, the new ecclesiology and the canonical status of the SSPX among other things.
I am re-listening to the show as I write this. Last night I was in a hurry.
I am a Feeneyite like St.Francis Xavier, St. Thomas Aquinas, St., Augustine....
I am also faithful to the magisterium according to Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
Like Fr.Leonard Feeney I affirm the rigorist interpretation of the dogma, the traditional version and ALSO being saved with the baptism of desire and invincible ignorance. Since being saved in invincible ignorance etc are always unknown and invisible for us humans in the present times, they cannot be exceptions to the traditional centuries old interpretation of the dogma.
So I affirm Ad Gentes 7 and Lumen Gentium 14 which says all need faith and baptism for salvation and LG 16, LG 8, UR 3, NA 2 etc cannot be exceptions.So there are no exceptions in Vatican Council II to AG 7 and LG 14. Neither are there any exceptions to the dogma. So I affirm the dogma and baptism of desire and invincible ignorance.
Similarly I affirm the Catechism of the Catholic Church 1257,845 which says all need to be baptised in the Catholic Church for salvation and for me there cannot be any exception in the Catechism to 1257 .Since we humans cannot know of any case of someone saved, because 'God is not limited to the Sacraments'(CCC 1257).Physically, personally we cannot know of any exception to the dogma in the present times.
I know that this is not the interpretation of Christine Niles, Michael Voris and the Archdiocese of Detroit.
For them LG 16, LG 14 etc refer to objectively seen cases in 2015.So they are explicit exceptions to the dogma for them. This was how Cardinal Francis Marchetti Selvaggiani originaly understood it.So Vatican Council II cannot be Feeneyite for them.
For me Vatican Council II and the Catechism are Feeneyite.There are no explicit exceptions.
For Ralph Martin, Vatican Council II is not Feeneyite. Since for him there are explicit exceptions to the dogma . This is his irrational reasoning.
Patrick Archbald on the Remnant has written that we cannot have it both ways.Here I have showed how you can have it both ways. I affirm extra ecclesiam nulla salus and invisible for us; theoretically accepted and not defacto for us, baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance.
Forward Boldly: Br. Andre-Marie