Monday, May 7, 2018

Monsgr.Antonio Livi will not answer questions and neither will Gloria TV

Related imageImage result for Logo Gloria TV


I have sent Monsignor Antonio Livi these questions in Italian and English and he still cannot answer them. Over the years I have been e-mailing these blog posts to him.
Recently in an interview with Gloria TV has criticized the theology of Pope Benedict as being heretical but has not said that Vatican Council II is not a rupture with the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS).
Whatever is his opinion on Fr. Leonard Feeney and Pope Pius XII he has to agree that LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc refer to hypothetical cases only. So they cannot be objective exceptions to the dogma EENS. We cannot meet or see any one saved as such outside the Church.So Vatican Council II does not contradict EENS as it was known to the missionaries in the 16th century.
Also the baptism of desire, baptism of blood and being saved in invincible ignorance are theoretical cases for us, speculation. We cannot meet any one saved as such with or without the baptism of water. They would only be in Heaven.
For there to be an exception to EENS the person must be there on earth.
In a box of apples if there is one orange in the middle then that orange is an exception since it is different from the other fruit but also - because it exists there in that box. If it was not there it would not be an exception.
Image result for Photos one apple in a box of oranges
Similarly there are no known cases of BOD,BOB and I.I in our reality so the Magisterium made a mistake in the Fr.Leonard Feeney case. This gave birth to a new theology, based on this irratiional premise, which was used at Vatican Council II and then supported by Cardinal Ratzinger in the Catechism of the Catholic Church 1994.

QUESTIONS ANSWERED BY MONSGR. ANTONIO LIVI

1.Mons. Livi do you agree that there is an  irrational reasoning in the Letter of the Holy Office 1949(LOHO) which rejects traditional extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS) ? And this reasoning is responsible for the false theology of the popes which you mentioned in the recent  interview with Gloria TV  ?
2. So unlike the popes and saints of the past Mons. Livi do you  consider the baptism of desire(BOD), baptism of blood(BOB) and being saved in invincible ignorance(I.I) as being physically invisible cases . Or instead, like the liberal theologians in 1949 and then 1965 you, Mons. Livi  will interpret BOD, BOB and I.I as being known people, physically visibleexamples of salvation outside the Church.?
 3. Mons. Livi  no more affirms the old exclusivist ecclesiology of the Church since visible for him BOD, BOB and I.I are objective exceptions to traditional EENS while it is not the same for Lionel on Lionel's Blog, why ? What is the difference?


4. Mons.Livi interprets Vatican Council II as a rupture with EENS since LG 8, LG 14, LG 16 etc refer to known people, saved outside the Catholic  Church, even when there cannot be any such known people, agreed?


5.This is also the official irrational reasoning among liberals  to eliminate the Syllabus of Errors on the Old Ecumenism of Return, the Old Theology based on invisible for us BOD, BOB and I.I and the Old Ecclesiology which was exclusivist and ecclesiocentric.This was the theology of Mons. Livi when he was a professor at the St.John Lateran University, Rome.?


6. Mons. Livi doctrinally has rejected the dogma EENS and so also in practise( pastorally) at interfaith meetings, catechesis for adults, Religion classes at school etc, this would be his understanding of Vatican Council II, a rupture with EENS?


 7. For Mons.Livi Vatican Council II does not  support the Syllabus of Errors on ecumenism, other religions,exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church etc but on Lionel's Blog it does.Why the difference? Both are reading the same Vatican Council II text and the interpretations are different?


8.Mons. Livi does  interpret  BOD, BOB and I.I (which common sense indicates are hypothetical cases) as referring to visible people, saved outside the Church,  in the present times and so in this way is like Fr. Hans Kung s.j,  Fr. Karl Rahner s.j , Fr.Jacques Dupuis s.j and Fr. Joseph Ratzinger ? This is assumed since for him there are objective exceptions to traditional extra ecclesiam nulla salus and so the dogma defined by three Church Councils is rejected by Vatican Council II ? There would have to be visible people for them to be exceptions to EENS ? But this is not the interpretation of Lionel ?


9.So on salvation theology it is clear that doctrine has been rejected and changed officially  and this is not being denied by the cardinals and yet Mons. Livi does not comment on this ? Since he makes the same mistake? 
-Lionel Andrades

MAY 3, 2018
Questions Mons.Livi should have been asked in the interview with Gloria TV
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2018/05/questions-monslivi-should-have-been.html



MAY 4, 2018

Le domande a cui Msgr. Antonio Livi non è stato chiesto nella recente intervista con Gloria TV
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2018/05/le-domande-cui-monsignor-antonio-livi.html




MAY 3, 2018

All the popes from John XIII have been promoting a heretical theology at Vatican Council II says Mons. Antonio Livi . He does not say that without a false premise the theology changes and then Vatican Council II automatically has the Old Theology and Old Ecclesiolgy
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2018/05/all-popes-from-john-xiii-have-been.html

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Ratzinger Is not a Solution to the Present Problems



03:03

All The Popes Since Vatican II Had Sympathies for Neo-Modernism


Talking to Gloria.tv, Monsignor Antonio Livi, a former dean and professor at the Roman Lateran University, pointed out that all popes since Second Vatican Council have had an attitude of esteem regarding heretical neo-modernism, including Benedict XVI who confessed that he basically agreed with the heretical theologian Karl Rahner. As a pope, Benedict even received the anti-Church theologian Hans Küng.


Ratzinger Is not a Solution to the Present Problems


To the question whether Joseph Ratzinger’s theology could lead out of the present crisis, Monsignor Livi replies: “absolutely not”. Livi explains that as a theologian Ratzinger is under neo-Protestant influence and opposed to the old Scholastic theology which has a rational rather than a sentimental, approach to the understanding of the faith.


Already Benedict XVI Avoided Magisterial Teaching


According to Livi, the documents published by Benedict XVI are theology, not magisterial documents. In these documents, Benedict XVI discusses with other theologians and he is less interested to re-propose the Catholic faith and to defend it from errors. Further, Livi points out that Benedict XVI spent months and months of his short pontificate to write theological books which he published as a private man.


The Ideology of “Modern Man”


Monsignore Livi points out that since John XXIII the opinion emerged that the Church must “translate” Catholic Dogma into a language comprehensible for – quote – “modern man”. Livi calls this a “myth” and “phantasy” because a “modern man” does not exist, only many modern men who are very different among each other. Livi explains that the category of “modern man” is taken from what newspapers or the media say. But – so Livi - there is more inside the soul of a human being than what the ideology of “modern man” wants us to believe.


The “New Pentecost” Is Oppressive


Monsignor Livi points out that the neo-modernist pastoral practice since Vatican II has often been called – quote – “a new Pentecost”. But this turns fallible practical decisions into infallible doctrins. Therefore, in the eyes of the neo-modernists, everybody who criticises their wrong pastoral practice commits a sacrilege and must be oppressed.
https://gloria.tv/video/W2wJy87edjQt4RTC63GxYLiSV

Repost : Everything hinges on visible baptism of desire : correct the premise and change the Council

JULY 6, 2017

Everything hinges on visible baptism of desire : correct the premise and change the Council

Change the premise and change the Council's interpretation with one stroke.
Image result for Photo Vatican COuncil IIImage result for Photo Wow
The changes Cardinal Richard Cushing, the Jesuits and others made in Vatican Council II were based on the Fr. Leonard Feeney case ; the use of the false premise.For some 19 years they did not lift the excommunication of Fr.Leonard Feeney. Since it would expose all their intrigues before and during Vatican Council II. His supporters would say that the excommunication was lifted without the priest in Boston having to recant. So there is no change in the dogmatic teaching on exclusive salvation in the Church.So they maintained the excommunication and hid the missing link.
Image result for Photo missing linkImage result for Photo missing link
Now that we have found the missing link we can undo all the damage done by the ecclesiastics of that time.
We need one simple action to make the Council traditional again.One simple action.It is - correct the premise.
Image result for Photo switch the lightImage result for Photo watering the root of the treeImage result for Photo watering the root of the tree
It can be compared to a dark room when the light is switched on.The darkness all goes at once. One simple action.Press the light switch.
It can be compared to watering the root of the tree. One simple action and the whole tree is nourished. We do not have to water the leaves and branches separately.
Similarly by changing the invisible cases are visible premise to simply invisible cases are just invisible - we water the whole tree of Vatican Council II, so to speak, all at once.We do not have to touch up Lumen Gentium or re-write Gaudium et Spes.
We have to be aware that LG 16 refers to an invisible case and so it cannot be an explicit exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS). The dogma EENS is central to the Vatican Council II interpretation.For there to be an exception to EENS an objective case is needed. An invisible person cannot be an exception to all needing to be members of the Church for salvation. A person who does not exist cannot be an example of salvation outside the Church in 2017.And for an exception to be an exception the person has to be present in 2017.So someone who allegedly went to Heaven without the baptism of water in the Catholic Church some 500 years back cannot be an exception to EENS in 2017.
So now we have a choice. We can use the irrational premise or discard it.We can assume LG 16, LG 8, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc refer to physically visible people or we can say that they are invisible cases in 2017.Either way the conclusion with reference to EENS is different.
So when your premise is : invisible cases of LG 16, LG 8 etc are not exceptions to EENS, since they are invisible in 2017, there is no rupture with EENS in Vatican Council II, we have a traditional Council.Vatican Council II is not a break with the Syllabus of Errors and the rest of Tradition.
So with one action we have changed Vatican Council II as it is being interpreted by just about every body today.
One simple action.
Image result for Photo magnet with iron filingsImage result for Photo magnet with iron filingsImage result for Photo magnet with iron filings
It can be compared to a magnet. When we change the polarity of a magnet all the iron filings placed before it move.They change their position.Similarly by changing the premise, one simple action, all the irrationality in Vatican Council II is moved out.
Try it for yourself. Experiment. Picture LG 16, LG 8, UR 3 etc as referring to unknown persons , unknowable persons.Or picture them as being known people saved outside the church. What is your conclusion in both cases with reference to EENS?
When we choose a rational premise not only does Vatican Council II change but the Council is in harmony with other magisterial documents.
Image result for what is a tuning forkImage result for Photo Tuning forkImage result for Photo Tuning fork
 When a tuning fork is struck other tuning forks at the same frequency also vibrate.So also when we choose a rational premise there is harmony with other magisterial documents interpreted with the same rational premise. Vatican Council II( without the irrational premise) is in harmony with the Catechisms of the Catholic Church (interpreted without the irrational premise). 
Image result for Photo Catholic holy massImage result for Photo Tridentine Rite MassImage result for Photo Greek Catholic Melkite Mass
Without the irrational premise the Holy Mass offered today, in Italian , Latin or Greek, has the same ecclesiology of the Tridentine Rite Mass of the 16th century.The Nicene Creed is simple and the same as the understanding over the centuries.Invisible for us baptism of desire and blood and being saved in invincible ignorance are not exceptions to the old ecclesiology or to Feeneyite EENS.They do not make Vatican Council II a rupture with the past.
One small change and all this good is achieved. One simple action and the Council returns to Tradition.
-Lionel Andrades