Monday, May 28, 2012

The Latin Mass Society Conference in London speakers in confusion; SSPX could be letting another chance go by

On June 9 the Latin Mass Society will hold a conference (1) and the speakers include Fr.Tim Finigan who on the blog The Hermeneutic of Continuity has difficulty with the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, baptism of desire and Vatican Council II.There is confusion on ecclesiology.Unless there are people on earth who have a special charism and Fr.Tim Finegan could be one of them, who can see people on earth saved with the baptism of desire and invincible ignorance, most people, if not all, cannot see these cases. So these cases  cannot be exceptions to the dogma. The baptism of desire is not an exception to the dogma.

This issue is at the heart of the SSPX problem.The Society of St.Pius X (SSPX) needs to respond to all this in language which is precise example they could say:-

“We reject the Vatican Council II of those who believe that persons saved in invincible ignorance etc are known to us on earth and so are exceptions to Original Sin, the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and Vatican Council II ( AG 7).We reject this Vatican Council II interrpetation as irrational. We can accept any Magisterial document, including Vatican Council II, which assumes those saved in invincible ignorance (LG 16) etc are in Heaven and are known only to God.So Vatican Council II according to Tradition does not contradict the SSPX position on other religions, Judaism and ecumenism and it is in in agreement with the literal interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus as it was known to popes,Church Councils and saints”.

So when Cardinal Kurt Koch says the SSPX must accept Vatican Council II they can respond that they do accept the Council according to Tradition e.g Ad Gentes 7. Can Cardinal Koch accept it? No! This can be seen by their removal of comments on this subject from Rorate Caeli.Ad Gentes 7 is at the heart of other religions,ecumenism and religious liberty.

When Cardinal Kurt Koch says that the SSPX must accept that Jews do not have to convert the SSPX could respond that Vatican Council II indicates that Jews need to convert and that Catholics are the new Chosen People of God. Can Cardinal Koch accept this ? No. This can be seen from their response to the Catholic News Service report on Cardinal Koch's May 16 statement at the Angelicum University.

However if the SSPX is not sure of this issue like some of the speakers at the London Conference Cardinal Koch can make his claims on Vatican Council II with no references from the Council and the SSPX will not be able to check him. The same thing happened during the SSPX-Vatican talks. The SSPX did not point out to Cardinal Ladaria and Bishop Morerod the factual errors that are there in two of the theological papers of the International Theological Commission. They should have made it public. They did not. The Vatican side got away with it.
-Lionel Andrades

1.

http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2012/05/latin-mass-society-conference-in-london.html#more
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Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door.- Ad Gentes 7,Vatican Council II.

Nostra Aetate does not contradict Ad Gentes 7
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/05/nostra-aetate-does-not-contradict-ad.html#links

POPE EXPECTED TO SAY NEXT MONTH NON CHRISTIAN BABIES DO NOT NEED THE BAPTISM OF WATER TO GO TO HEAVEN

Pope Benedict XVI is to speak on June 11 at a conference on the theme 'Go out into the whole world.Teach and baptize’ and ‘Discovering the beauty of baptism’.The pope is expected to say  non Chrtisian babies do not need the baptism of water for salvation and they will be saved, because of  the mercy of God, even with Original Sin on their soul.He has already said that non Catholic adults do not have to convert into the Church for salvation. So he is expected to present another reason why we should go out into the whole  world…

This positionof the Holy Father is contrary to Tradition, the dogma extra eccesiam nulla salus, the Catechism of the Catholic Chruch N.1257 and the Bible on baptism (John 3:5).It is a hermeneutic of rupture.

This new doctrine of the pope is considered ‘development’ as explained in the International Theological Commission(ITC) papers The Hope of Salvation for Infants Who Die without Being Baptised (2007) and Christianity and the World Religions (1997). Both these papers carry an oversight. They have an objective factual error. This is the Richard Cushing Error.This oversight is the basis , one of the theological pegs for the non traditional speculation on the fate of unbaptized infants. The two ITC papers approved by the pope assume that those saved with the baptism of desire and invincible ignorance are known to us in the present time. They believe that the understanding of the baptism of desire etc in the Fr.Leonard Feeney case was an historic ‘development of doctrine’. They do not realize, that these cases are not known to us in heaven or on earth.Neither does the pope?

They believe that this development of doctrine is a clear exception to the dogma extra eclessiam nulla salus. So if there can be an exception to the dogma on the need for all adults to receive the baptism of water it is reasoned, why can there not  be exceptions for infants?

And if the exceptions can be there in a few cases then why not in general for all non Christians? This is how the argument goes for them. So the  ITC issued the paper on Limbo in 2007 based on a factual error: being able to see people on earth saved with the baptism of desire etc.

Like the little boy who cried "The Emperor has no clothes!" in the Hans Christian Anderson fable , someone has to shout out to the pope "We don’t know anyone saved in heaven or on earth with the baptism of desire or in invincible ignorance!”

The pope who says non Christian babies are saved without the baptism of water and with Original Sin on their soul, and still do not go to Hell or Limbo, also says, due to foreign pressure, that  Jews do not have to convert in the present times.He will speak next month on the need to go out and proclaim the Good News and baptise, when he also says, that all non Christians are saved, as infants and adults with Original Sin and they do not need the baptism of water.So why go out...?

Pope Benedict is  our pope and we love him.I wish he would clarify that there are  no known exceptions of people saved with the baptism of desire and in invincible  ignorance and so there cannot be any known exception to the literal interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. So everyone , for salvation, needs  to remove Original Sin with the baptism of water.

He should not confuse Catholics and say that the Church knows of no means to eternal beatitude other than the baptism of water (CCC 1257) and ALSO  say there are known exceptions of....He assumes there are known exceptions because he does not recognize the Richard Cushing Error.
-Lionel Andrades
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Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door.- Ad Gentes 7,Vatican Council II.


Nostra Aetate does not contradict Ad Gentes 7
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/05/nostra-aetate-does-not-contradict-ad.html#links