Friday, November 11, 2016

Fr.Alessandro M.Minutella has been teaching false doctrine on the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and Vatican Council II : he assumes hypothetical cases are not hypothetical and so causes a rupture with Tradition

Fr.Alessandro M.Minutella has been teaching false doctrine on the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and also Vatican Council II. He interprets both the dogma EENS and Vatican Council II by assuming hypothetical cases are not hypothetical but objectively visible.This creates a rupture with Tradition.
The error was expressed on a video shown on Gloria TV 1.
For me he is interpreting the dogma EENS and also Vatican Council II with innovative Cushingism instead of traditional Feeneyism.
He has rejected the dogma EENS by assuming being saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire refer to 1) to known people in the present times  who are 2) saved without the baptism of water.With this irrational premise he then concludes that there are known exceptions to the centuries old interpretation of the dogma EENS.
Since there is known salvation outside the Church he assumes that not every one in the present times needs to enter the Church. So he rejects an ecumenism of return based on the traditional strict interpretation of the dogma EENS.
Similarly in inter-religious dialogue not every Hindu, Buddhist or Jew would need to enter the Church in the present times but only those who know about the Church, those who are not in invincible ignorance. This is a new doctrine.It assumes there are known exceptions to the dogma EENS, like being saved in invincible ignorance.
These doctrines are not being affirmed by Fr. Alessandro intentionally but he is repeating what he has been taught in theology at the Pontifical Gregorian University, Rome. 
Those Catholics who do not interpret Vatican Council II and the dogma EENS with the irrational premise and so affirm the traditional teachings, he would call fundamentalists( integralists) or Lefbvrists.
I affirm the dogma EENS and Vatican Council II. For me they are both in harmony.Since for me the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance refer to invisible cases and so they are not exceptions to the dogma EENS according to the 16th century missionaries.
The Letter of the Holy Office 1949 was a break with Tradition. It assumed that the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance referred to objectively and personally known cases. So it concluded that there were exceptions to the Feeneyite interpretation of the dogma EENS.This was an objective mistake. Since people in Heaven saved with the baptism of desire etc cannot be known on earth. It is a fact of life that we cannot see the dead.Neither can we know who is living on earth and will not need the baptism of water for salvation.-Lionel Andrades


05.11.16 EMERGENZE DOTTRINALI (IV) CON DON MINUTELLA: VERO E FALSO ECUMENISMO ALLA LUCE DEL C.V. II




The SSPX should point out that Vatican Council II supports an ecumenism of return and the theological position of the Vatican Curia(CDF/Ecclesia Dei) is irrational and non traditional.

Father Alessandro Minutella is an Italian priest who on a video on Gloria TV has criticised the traditionalists for not accepting the new ecumenism which he said is based on Vatican Council II.He also criticised them for rejecting Vatican Council II.He was accompanied on the video by Giuseppe Fallaci, who I assume is a layman.
Giuseppe Fallaci quoted Vatican Council II ( UR) affirming an ecumenism of return.
So I mentioned in the comments section that Vatican Council II(UR ), the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus,Giuseppe Fallaci and myself affirm an ecumenism of return.So  does the Society of St. Pius X and the other traditionalists,but not Fr.Minutella.He would not say that the Lutherans need to enter the Catholic Church for salvation.
So Vatican Council II supports the SSPX position on an ecumenism of return.
Since it was confirmed by Giuseppe Fallaci that the Lefbrivists are in agreement with Vatican Council II on an ecumenism of returm, I asked where is the counter theology which negates an ecumenism of return in Vatican Council? Where does Vatican Council II say otherwise?
After over 20 comments there was no answer from either them.Since there is no precise theology in Vatican Council II to reject the ecumenism of return.
The key to understanding this is the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. I placed the text of the dogma, as a comment before them, as it was defined by the three Church Councils.
The ecumenism of return is based on the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS).
So if they have a theology which rejects EENS then it is possible to reject an ecumenism of return.
So how do they reject the dogma EENS, what is the ruse?
They do it by assuming there are known cases of the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance, without the baptism of water.They have to begin with this premise. Known cases of people who are saved in Heaven without the baptism of water and who are not invisible for them!
Invisible cases for us  are visible for them.
Imaginary cases are not imaginary for them.
Hypothetical cases are defacto known on earth.
Then they infer, that these people in Heaven who are visible on earth,are objective exceptions, to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. They call this nonsense ' a development' of the dogma.The present magisterium supports them.This is deception.
Without this irrational premise and non traditional conclusion there is no theology in Vatican Council II which contradicts an ecumenism of return.
Similarly without this irrational premise there is no change in the old ecclesiology which taught that all Jews, Muslims etc need to convert into the Catholic Church as members, to avoid the fires of Hell.
When Fr.Alessandro Minutella and other liberal priests say that there is a new ecumenism, they must be asked to cite the text. When they quote UR 3 ( being saved in imperfect communion with the Church),for example, it should be pointed out that this is a reference to a hypothetical case. We do not know anyone personally in 2016 or the past saved as such. So it is not an exception to the old ecclesiology and an ecumenism of returm.
The SSPX should point out that Vatican Council II, like the SSPX, supports an ecumenism of return and that the theological position of the Vatican Curia(CDF/Ecclesia Dei) is irrational and non traditional.
Similarly they should point out to the CDF/Ecclesia Dei that Vatican Council II (AG 7, LG 14) supports the Feeneyite interpretation of the dogma EENS and all non Christians in the present times, with no known exception, need to enter the Church as members to avoid the fires of Hell.There is nothing in Vatican Council II to contradict the dogma EENS as it was known to the 16th century missionaries.-Lionel Andrades


November 10, 2016

Il Concilio Vaticano II è d'accordo con l'ecclesiologia della Societa di San Pio X/ Fraternita Sacerdotale San Pio X,Albano,Italia e quelli che Don Alessandro Minutella si chiama integralisti

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2016/11/il-concilio-vaticano-ii-e-daccordo-con.html

Conference on Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus expected to proclaim the same errors.

Radio SpadaThere will be a conference tomorrow in Milan, Italy on the subject Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus.It is organised by Radio Spada and  it is expected that they will make the same error as the Vatican Curia in the interpretation of the thrice defined dogma on exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church.
The speakers of course will cite the dogma which says all need to enter the Church for salvation; all need to be incorporated as members to avoid the fires of Hell.
But then they will cite the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 which says the opposite.They will be satisfied with this confusion and heresy.
Radio Spada will cite Cantate Domino, Council of Florence 1441 which says all need to visibly enter the Church for salvation and that Protestants and Orthodox Christians are on the way to Hell and then, Radio Spada will also quote the Letter 1949  to the Archbishop of Boston which suggests that being saved in invncible ignorance and the baptism of desire refers to known cases in the present times, of people saved without the baptism of water in the Catholic Church.So every one does not need to enter the Church for salvation as the dogma states, since there are known exceptions.This will be their common dual position.
This irrationality is the basis of the new theology of Ratzinger - Rahner which Radio Spada is unaware of.They also interpret Vatican Council II with the same  irrational reasoning. It says there are visible cases in Heaven or earth of people saved with the baptism of desire and without the baptism of water.So they infer that there is known salvation outside the Church.
Fr.Karl Rahner referred to it as the Anonymous Christian and Cardinal Ratzinger said all who are saved are saved through Jesus and the Church(CCC 846). In other words all do not need to formally enter the Church since there are known exceptions of the baptism of desire etc.
The traditionalists will then refer to the Catechism of Pope Pius X which mentions being saved in invincible ignorance.They will assume it refers to objectively known cases and so will connect this irrationality with the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, even when there is no connection.Invisible cases cannot be exceptions to the dogma in 2016.
They are not aware that it was Fr.Leonard Feeney who was proclaiming Catholic othodoxy and that it was the magisterium and the traditionalists, Archbishop Lefebvre included, who were promoting an innovation and heresy.
So now when the modernists criticize the traditionalists for not accepting a new ecumenism, which does not necessaily include an ecumenism of return, the traditionalists are unaware that Vatican Council II ONLY supports an ecumenism of return. There is no theology in Vatican Council II to support the new ecunmenism. This would be known to someone who does not use the Rahner Ratzinger new theology.Someone who  knows that Fr.Leonard Feeney was correct. He did not know of any exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and said so.-Lionel Andrades

extra-ecclesiam-nulla-salus
November 8, 2016

Extra ecclesiam nulla salus: Milano 12 novembre 2016

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2016/11/extra-ecclesiam-nulla-salus-milano-12.html