Saturday, October 26, 2013

"Thank you"-Michael Voris

Cristina Siccardi

There has been no response from Cristina Siccardi to e-mails which show there is a  doctrinal error in her recent book being distributed by the SSPX, Italy.On p.133 of L'Inverno della Chiesa dopo il Concilio Vaticano II she has referred to outside the visible limits of the Church there being salvation (UR 3). For her UR 3 is a contradiction to the traditional teaching on salvation and other religions and Christian communities.
Fr.Gabriel who offered Mass last Sunday at the SSPX chapel in Rome has said that being saved in imperfect communion with the Church (UR 3) is a possibility but not a known exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.Fr.Gabriel is aware that there are no known exceptions . Cristina Siccardi is not aware of it.
She has just accepted Fr.Jean Marie Glieze saying that Vatican Council II says outside the visible limits of the Catholic Church there are known cases of salvation. He assumed too that UR 3 is a known exception.
When Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre said that there could be Hindu in Tibet saved in his religion he did not say that we know this case in the present times or that we could know this person. So he did not say that there was a known exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
We can accept that there could be a Hindu in Tibet saved in his religion and also simultaneously accept the traditional interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, whose text does not mention any exceptions, known or unknown.-Lionel Andrades 

No known exceptions in Nostra Aetate to extra ecclesiam nulla salus

I was talking to a priest of the Society of St.Pius X (SSPX) who believed that Nostra Aetate, Vatican Council II contradicted the traditional teaching on other religions. I thought it did not. He insisted it did but could not remember the text.
Here are some passages from Nostra Aetate. They do not clash with Ad Gentes 7 and Lumen Gentium 14 which says all need to enter the Church 'as through a door', all need 'faith and baptism' for salvation.Neither does it say that there are any known exceptions to AG 7 and LG 14, the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus or the Syllabus of Errors.
Dominus Iesus (20) tells us that salvation is available for all, Jesus died for all but to receive this salvation all need to accept Jesus as the Saviour, in the Catholic Church. The Church is necessary for salvation.
Nostra Aetate
1.One is the community of all peoples, one their origin, for God made the whole human race to live over the face of the earth.One also is their final goal, God. His providence, His manifestations of goodness, His saving design extend to all men, until that time when the elect will be united in the Holy City, the city ablaze with the glory of God, where the nations will walk in His light.
True, one is the community of all peoples but not all will go to Heaven.Those without 'faith and baptism' are oriented to Hell unless they convert into the Church. They have an option.
2.The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men. Indeed, she proclaims, and ever must proclaim Christ "the way, the truth, and the life" (John 14:6), in whom men may find the fullness of religious life, in whom God has reconciled all things to Himself.
The Catholic Church rejects nothing which is good and holy in other religions. However these religions are false paths to salvation(AG 7,LG 14). So even though there are good and holy things in other religions it is not enough. There members need to convert according to Vatican Council II (AG 7).
4.Thus the Church of Christ acknowledges that, according to God's saving design, the beginnings of her faith and her election are found already among the Patriarchs, Moses and the prophets. She professes that all who believe in Christ-Abraham's sons according to faith -are included in the same Patriarch's call, and likewise that the salvation of the Church is mysteriously foreshadowed by the chosen people's exodus from the land of bondage.
Catholics accept the Old Testament, the Jewish Prophets.The Jewish people were once the people of God the chosen people. They now need to accept the Jewish Messiah in the Catholic Church for salvation. Unlike the Jews today, the Church has the Sacrifice, in the Mass,the Eucharist, the Ark of the Covenant, in the tabernacle and Catholics are the new people of God (NA 4).
The SSPX priest agreed that there were no known exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. The SSPX priests have also agreed that being saved in invincible ignorance(LG 16) and imperfect communion with the Church(UR 3) are possibilities but not known exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
In Nostra Aetate 1, 2 and 4 also there are no known exceptions mentioned, to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
So the Catholic Church's traditional teaching on other religions and ecumenism has not been changed by Vatican Council II as many believe.
The un-noticed error is caused by assuming that there are known exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and assuming wrongly that we can see the dead-saved who considered exceptions to all needing to convert into the Church in the present times.
-Lionel Andrades