Carmelite in Rome will not comment on St. Teresa of Avila proclaiming all Lutherans are going to Hell which is also indicated by Vatican Council II (Ad Gentes 7, Lumen Gentes 14).
At the Church of Santa Maria di Vittoria, Rome is the famous statue of St. Teresa of Avila kneeling in ecstasy with an angel piercing her heart with an arrow. The Carmelite Spanish mystic describes this experience in one of her books. Declared a Doctor of the Church she believed all Protestants, specifying Lutherans, were heretics and on the way to Hell. She believed deep down in their heart, heretics knew they were wrong but continued in their heresy, in their rebellion from the one, true Church of Jesus Christ.
Opposite the extraordinary statue in white marble is the entrance to the extended sacristy and corridor which I entered on August 19, 2011. There was a Carmelite priest who was sitting behind a table answering questions for tourists. Religious books, postcards and relics were on display there.
“Could I ask you a question? A religious one?” I asked him in Italian. Yes. He nodded. On my left were postcards of the statue. There were also new books written on the saint and her teachings.
“There is the baptism of desire which a non Catholic can receive. This baptism of desire in known only to God. We do not know any particular case”, I asked.
“No, we do not know any such case” replied the elderly priest. I think he said his name was Fr. Pancrazio.
“Neither do we know of any case of a person saved in invincible ignorance” I said aloud.
“Yes we do not know any such case it is only known to God”
It was a hot day in Rome, he had to answer the phone and the good priest had two television security consoles before him. It could have been tiring for him with so many tourists. In the evening he offers Mass.
“So there is nothing in Vatican Council which contradicts the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus?” I asked.
He paused.
“The dogma says everyone must be a member of the Catholic Church for salvation. Everyone needs to explicitly enter the Church." I continued.
“It does not contradict the dogma” he agreed. He asked me if I was a Catholic.
“So Vatican Council II supports St.Teresa of Avila when she said we must pray for Lutherans since they were going to Hell.?”
Pause. Yes we must pray for them, he answered.
“Do you believe they are all going to Hell”?
Pause. No answer.
The dogma says all ‘heretics’ need to convert into he Church to avoid Hell, repeated.
Non Catholics he replied could be saved with a good conscience; those who follow their conscience.
We agreed that we do not know any such case, I reminded him.
So it does not contradict Vatican Council I (Ad Gentes 7, Lumen Gentes 14). All need Catholic Faith and the baptism of water for salvation. The baptism of water is given to adults with Catholic Faith. Lutherans do not have Catholic Faith.
He had nothing more to say on this subject.
-Lionel Andrades
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