Here is a comment on one of the posts on this blog
Anonymous:
If God is not bound by His Sacraments, He would make Himself untrustworthy. He has bound Himself by His Word, and will not (and cannot) deceive us.
Lionel:
Those who cannot say that we do not know any case of the baptism of desire or being saved in invincible ignorance have difficulty here.Those who assume that the baptism of desire is known to us explicitly would have difficulty here.They would assume that the baptism of desire is an exception and so it is being said that the dogma has explicit exceptions.
Those who know that we do not know any exceptions, and that they are irrelevant to the literal interpretation of the dogma, know that this is not an issue.
The baptism of water is the ordinary means of salvation we all agree here.
If God chooses to save a person without the Sacraments it would be known only to God. So it does not contradict the ordinary, normal way chosen by God for us to go to Heaven and avoid Hell.
It was Cardinal Richard Cushing who contributed to the illusion of the baptism of desire being an exception to the ordinary means of salvation chosen by God.
Anonymous :
I think it is the Church that says angels cannot baptize.
Lionel:
If God chose to send an angel to baptize someone it is possible. God being God.
However we cannot know of any such case. So it does not contradict the teaching of the dogma extra ecclesiam, which says all must convert. It does not also contradict Vatican Council II (AG 7 ) which says all need Catholic Faith and the baptism of water.-Lionel Andrades
However because of the Richard Cushing error he also says that we can hope for the salvation of all infants who die before baptism.
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/09/bishop-raffaelo-martinelli-says-church.html
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3 comments:
Lionel said: "It was Cardinal Richard Cushing who contributed to the illusion of the baptism of desire being an exception to the ordinary means of salvation chosen by God."
Correct. How presumptuous for the Cardinal to project to know the will of God regarding possibilities unknown to us on earth. The cardinal and his influence did grave damage to our Catholic faith by teaching his contrived exception theology instead the whole, pure and undefiled purity and accuracy of centuries of truth.
http://catholicism.org/baptism-of-desire-its-origin-and-abandonment-in-the-thought-of-saint-augustine.html
Anonymous
http://catholicism.org/baptism-of-desire-its-origin-and-abandonment-in-the-thought-of-saint-augustine.html
Lionel:
Thank you for the link. I have read this report before.
I appreciate the theology and the research.
Of course we take it for granted that the baptism of desire in individual cases is known only to God.
St.Augustine and the other saints quoted do not claim that these cases are known to us.Those who are saved are not visible to us.
Since these cases are unknown to us they do not contradict the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
The baptism of desire is irrelevant to the literal interpretation of the dogma on salvation.
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