Ad Gentes 7 says all need to convert into the Chruch for salvation and LG 16 , AG 11,LG 8 are 'zero cases' according to the apologist John Martigioni
John Martigioni has opened the path to a traditional and rational interpretation of Vatican Council II and the SSPX should take it.
He has indicated that the present interpretation of Vatican Council II is false when it uses a false and irrational premise. The same premise is being used by BIshop Bernard Fellay.
Since the SSPX assumes that Vatican Council II contradicts the traditional teaching on other religions this is a clear sign that it is using the false premise of the visible dead saved.It assumes that those saved with the baptism of desire and in invincible ignorance are not 'zero cases', as Martigioni says, but that they are known cases in 2012.So they are exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
This is also the misunderstanding of Archbishop Gerhard Muller and Archbishop Augustine Di Noia and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith,Vatican.They expressed this error of 'zero cases alive in 2012', in their interviews with the National Catholic Register when asked about extra ecclesiam nulla salus. Archbishop Muller indicated that invincible ignorance was an explicit exception to the dogma and Archbishop Di Noia said grace in Lumen Gentium referred to an exception(LG 8). Martigioni is saying that invincible ignorance and elements of sanctification are not known exceptions to the dogma or to Ad Gentes 7 which says all need faith and baptism for salvation.
The SSPX should comment on Martigioni's rational statement.
In the past the SSPX wanted the Vatican to show them a traditional interpretation of the Council, with the hermeneutic of continuity but there was no theologian available. The theologian Cardinal Luiz Ladaria S.J, Secretary of the CDF, assumes those saved in invincible ignorance etc are known cases in 2012 and so are exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.(See Christianity and the World Religions, International Theological Commission).So he could not be expected to support Tradition.
John Martigioni, who is now also the Director of Evangelisation in the Diocese of Birmingham,Alabama,USA (1) has answered two important questions which the CDF has been avoiding.
He has said that in the year 2012 we cannot know any one saved in invincible ignorance, the baptism of desire, a good conscience, seeds of the word (AG11), imperfect communion with the Church. Also that these cases annot be considered exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and the Syllabus of Errors. This opens up a new interpretation of the Council ,one which is also rational and does not claim that we can see ghosts or that the Holy Spirit expects us to see the visible dead.
Even if we could know, in this lifetime, which we can’t, that someone has been saved even though they were invincibly ignorant, or if someone has been saved through the Baptism of Desire, etc., it would not be an exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus. This is because they would be saved through the Church by some extraordinary means known unto God alone. So, it would still be that outside the Church, there is no salvation. -Martigioni
A member of the Diocesan Staff under Bishop Robert J.Baker he observed ‘How can zero cases of something be considered exceptions?’
I asked:You would also agree that since implicit intention, invincible ignorance and a good conscience(LG 16) are possibilities mentioned in Vatican Council II and not defacto,known exceptions to the dogma, so Vatican Council II in these cases does not contradict extra ecclesiam nulla salus ?
He replied,'Yes, I agree that none of those things would contradict extra ecclesiam nulla salus.'
-Lionel Andrades
1
Director of the Office of the New Evangelization and Stewardship,Diocese of Birmingham in Alabama,USA
2121 3rd Ave. N.,P.O. Box 12047,Birmingham, AL 35202-2047,USA
Phone: ( 205) 776-7163
Email: jmartignoni@bhmdiocese.org
Wednesday, November 7, 2012
Implicit intention, invincible ignorance and a good conscience (LG 16) in Vatican Council II do not contradict extra ecclesiam nulla salus –John Martigioni
IRRESPECTIVE IF THE BAPTISM OF DESIRE RESULTS IN JUSTIFICATION OR JUSTIFICATON AND SALVATION IT IS NOT AN EXPLICIT EXCEPTION TO THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS
JOHN MARTIGIONI SAYS VATICAN COUNCIL II IS IN AGREEMENT WITH EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS AND THE SYLLABUS: WHEN WILL THE SSPX AND THE VATICAN CURIA ACKNOWLEDGE IT?
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