SEDEVACANTIST ASKS

Sedevacantist:

You've done nothing but explained why we reject VII. There are NO previous papal teachings on "baptism of desire", "invincible ignorance", or salvation-outside the Church;

Lionel:

 Even if there were teachings on baptism of desire or there were no teachings on it, baptism of desire/implicit desire does not contradict the dogma since they are always implicit and unknown to us.

Sedevacantist:

which even though you've tried to show your Church (VII Church) teaches NO salvation outside the Church, you've laid out how souls ARE saved outside the Church.

Lionel:

 We accept the possibility of a person being saved with implicit desire etc, the Council of Trent mentions it as do the Church Fathers and the popes.

For you these cases are explicit and so are exceptions to the dogma for me and Catholic Tradition these cases are always implicit.

So even if they ARE saved it is irrelevant to the dogmatic teaching.

Sedevacantist:

The very things you mention "b.o.d", "invincible ignorance" are just absurd ways of teaching that a person does not need the Catholic faith for salvation.

Lionel:

This would be the understanding if these cases were explicit. Since they are not known to us they are not exceptions to anything.

Sedevacantist:

It is a dogma that every human creature must hold the Catholic faith and be baptized (As It Is Written) for salvation.

Lionel:

Yes and this is the literal interpretation of the dogma which we hold to. It is compatible with Vatican Council II. The dogma Cantate Domino, Council of Florence 1441 is not opposed to implicit salvation known only to God.

-Lionel Andrades