First they assume that those saved with ‘a ray of the Truth’ are explicit. Then they criticize NA 2 for suggesting that there is salvation outside the Church.
Editor:
the root of your confusion, it seems to me, is that you think that some people see baptism of desire as “an exception to extra ecclesiam…”
the root of your confusion, it seems to me, is that you think that some people see baptism of desire as “an exception to extra ecclesiam…”
Lionel:
Yes.
Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre sees the baptism of desire as an exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.So does Bishop Bernard Fellay.
Fr.Francois Laisney, Fr.Peter Scott and Fr.Joseph Pfieffer in the links you have provided, see the baptism of desire as an exception to the literal interpretation of Fr.Leonard Feeney.
All salvation for them ( baptism of desire, being saved in invincible ignorance, a ray of the Truth, imperfect communion with the Church etc) is an exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus. For them it is saying there is salvation outside the Church. It means, for them, every non Catholic does not need to enter the Church. So they reject Vatican Council II.
Why do they reject Vatican Council II?
Yes.
Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre sees the baptism of desire as an exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.So does Bishop Bernard Fellay.
Fr.Francois Laisney, Fr.Peter Scott and Fr.Joseph Pfieffer in the links you have provided, see the baptism of desire as an exception to the literal interpretation of Fr.Leonard Feeney.
All salvation for them ( baptism of desire, being saved in invincible ignorance, a ray of the Truth, imperfect communion with the Church etc) is an exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus. For them it is saying there is salvation outside the Church. It means, for them, every non Catholic does not need to enter the Church. So they reject Vatican Council II.
Why do they reject Vatican Council II?
Since first they assume that those saved with ‘a ray of the Truth’ are explicit. Then they criticize NA 2 for suggesting that there is salvation outside the Church.
Is it not the same with you?
Is NA 2 ( a ray of the Truth) an exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus, the Syllabus of Errors etc ? Is it not saying for you that there is salvation ( known) outside the visible limits of the Church? Every one does not need ‘faith and baptism’(AG 7) in Britain in 2014 for salvation?
Editor:
That is utter nonsense. The “desire” (of those who die without baptism) is precisely to die “within the Church”.
That is utter nonsense. The “desire” (of those who die without baptism) is precisely to die “within the Church”.
Lionel:
Yes they die within the Church and they are saved.
The issue is : are these cases relevant to extra ecclesiam nulla salus? Is the baptism of deisre an exception to the traditional interpretation of the dogma whose text does not mention any exception ?
-Lionel AndradesYes they die within the Church and they are saved.
The issue is : are these cases relevant to extra ecclesiam nulla salus? Is the baptism of deisre an exception to the traditional interpretation of the dogma whose text does not mention any exception ?
http://catholictruthblog.com/2014/06/08/will-pope-francis-inter-faith-peace-prayers-please-god-if-so-which-one/#comment-16338
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