Chris Ferrara said 'Objectively speaking Jews need to (42:10) believe and be baptised or else be condemned.This is the objective reality of the situation.'He was citing the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus in the recent debate with Mark Shea 1.
I agree with him objectively speaking, in general, the Jews need to believe in Jesus and be baptised with water and follow Jesus' teachings in the Catholic Church, to avoid the fires of Hell.Objectively speaking all Jews in 2016, need to convert into the Catholic Church to be saved.
There cannot be any known case of a Jew saved in 2016 in invincible ignorance and without the baptism of water.I cannot meet a Jew, or other non Christian, saved with the baptism of desire and without the baptism of water.I cannot meet a Jew saved with 'elements of sanctification and truth'(LG 8) or 'seeds of the Word'(AG 11) or 'good and holy things' in Judaism (NA 2).
So the case of invincible ignorance, which Chris mentions, when speaking about the Vatican document on the Jews approved by the Jewish Left, is not relevant to the dogma from the Council of Florence which he quoted.
To say objectively speaking all Jews need to believe and be baptised or else be condemned, is Feeneyism.
Feeneyism says ( according to me) there are no known exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and the baptism of desire etc are not exceptions or relevant to the dogma. To suggest that they are relevant is heresy.
Chris Ferrara may have mentioned invincible ignorance since Archbishop Lefebvre and the SSPX priests do so. They assume there are known exceptions to the Council of Florence teaching.This includes being saved in invincible ignorance.
Pope Pius XII also did not support Fr.Leonard Feeney and tacitly approved the innovation of the new Cushingite theology, into the Church, which says there are known exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and so all Jews, and other non Catholics, do not objectively have to convert any more into the Catholic Church.
Pope John XXIII was also not willing to support traditional Feeneyism which says objectively speaking Jews need to believe and be baptised or be condemned. For him there were exceptions. For the Archbishop of Boston Cardinal Richard Cushing and the Jesuits, there were also exceptions.Every one did not need to convert into the Church objectively speaking.
So being saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire was mentioned in Vatican Council II even though it was not relevant and was an innovation in the Church.
No saint or pope before the Council of Trent said, for example, that the baptism of desire was visible and not invisible. None of them said that these cases were visible and so were exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.Invisible and unknown cases cannot be exceptions to all needing to formally enter the Church in 2016. Objectively speaking invisible cases cannot be exceptions to the Feeneyite interpretation of the dogma on exclusive salvation.
Yet this error(invisible exceptions) was placed in Vatican Council II since it was overlooked in the Baltimore Catechism (1891). Desire and longing for the baptism of water by a catechuman was considered objectively known in 1891. The salvation-results in Heaven were considered objectively visible in the Baltimore Catechism.So the the new baptism was placed in the same section , as the baptism of water.The error was not checked in subsequent catechisms.
The baptism of desire it was inferred referred to known cases or a known action like the baptism of water.Just as in faith we accept the results of the baptism of water as being one of salvation, we have to accept the same with the baptism of desire according to the Baltimore Catechism. Even though objectively speaking these are invisible cases and so theoretically could also be followed by the baptism of water.
It is important for Chris Ferrara to say clearly that objectively speaking all Jews and other non Christians need to formally enter the Church, with no exceptions, in 2016, since being saved with the baptism of desire or blood or in invincible ignorance are not objective exceptions.They are irrelevant to the dogma.-Lionel Andrades
Chris Ferrara Vs Mark Shea