E-mail correspondence
Dear XYZ,
Lionel:
When XYZ cannot affirm
Feeneyite EENS like me, since BOD, BOB and I.I are exceptions ( according to the
1949 Letter, Vatican Council II text for him and Pope Benedict XVI last year in
the Avvenire interview ) then he is inferring , implying ,suggesting that
there are visible and known people saved outside the Church.
I am simply pointing it
out.
______________________________
Non-Christians are not visible
members of the Catholic Church according to Vatican II.
Lionel: No per se.______________________________
Lumen gentium, 16 speaks of
these non-Christians as being ordered, directed, or related (ordinantur)
to the people of God in various ways. Pius XII in his 1943
encyclical, Mystici corporis, also says that those who do not belong to
the visible Body of the Catholic Church may be ordered, directed, or related
(ordinentur) with the Mystical Body of the Redeemer (Denz.-H,
3821).
Lionel:
Yes here they refer to theoretical
possibilities. This is fine.
Nowhere is it said that these are
known cases saved outside the Church or that they are exceptions to EENS. The
text does not state this. So there is no problem here.
But the liberal theologians made
the false inference.They re-interpreted Mystici Corporis for example. For them
Mystici Corporis etc were referring to known cases of BOD, BOB and I.I and so
Mystici Corporis etc are interpreted as being exceptions to Feeneyite
EENS.
The same false inference is made
in the 1949 Letter of the Holy Office and it has been accepted by all of you at...,
______________________________
This passage from Mystici
corporis is cited by the Holy Office in its 1949 Letter concerning Father
Feeney (Denz.-H 3871). LG, 16 likewise cites St. Thomas Aquinas (ST III q. 8 a.
3 ad 1): http://dhspriory.org/thoma
Lionel:
Mystici Corporis etc only mentions BOD,
BOB and I.I while the Letter goes a step forward in irrationality and heresy
and assumes invisible cases of BOD BOB and I.I are visible and known exceptions
to Feeneyite EENS. This is a private inference.
Also the Letter was placed in the Denzinger by
Fr. Rahner without him correcting the mistake. Instead he referred to the
Anonymous Christian theory based on known salvation outside the Church( visible
cases of BOD etc).
______________________________
Here the Angelic Doctor notes that
the unbaptized are members of the Church potentially though not actually.
Therefore, they are related to the Church as potential members according to St.
Thomas.
Lionel.
And the Angelic Doctor does not state that these
are personally known cases. So again this is irrelevant to the strict
interpretation of EENS, which he affirmed.
______________________________
LG, 14 tells us that only Catholics
in full communion with the Catholic Church are "united with her as part of her
visible bodily structure."
Lionel.
Since the Church Fathers(Cardinal Cushing etc)
assumed that being saved in invincible ignorance was a known exception to the
dogma EENS LG 14 could be referring to only those who 'know' and who are not in
invincible ignorance. This would be an error.The dogma EENS says every one needs
to enter the Church and not only those who 'know' etc.
For me LG 14 here is not an exception to EENS
since those who know or do not know and who are saved or not saved would not be
an exception to EENS for us human beings.It would only be known to
God.
______________________________
So Non-Christians and even
Non-Catholic Christians are not in full communion with the Catholic Church "as
part of her visible bodily structure."
Lionel:O.k but are they on the way to Hell ?______________________________
Non-Catholic Christians, however,
because of their baptism have a certain though imperfect communion with the
Catholic Church (UR, 3; Denz.-H, 4188).
Lionel: O.K but are they on the
way to Hell ? ______________________________
Non-Christians are only ordered,
directed, or related to the Church in various ways.
Lionel:For me they are on the way to
Hell. This is magisterial for me. This is the teaching of the Church before and
after Vatican Council II for me.(Vatican Council II (AG 7, LG 14),
Cantate Domino Council of Florence, the Catechism of the Catholic Church
interpreted with hypothetical cases just being hypothetical(CCC 1257,845,846
etc)...
______________________________
Now these Non-Christians are visible
because they have bodies,
Lionel: Who are these non Christians XYZ is
referring to? Does he know someone who among them has been saved without
entering the Catholic Church?______________________________
but they are not within the Church as visible members.
Lionel : There are no such cases for us human beings. So the premise for this passage of XYZ is wrong.
______________________________
If these non-Christians die and go
to heaven (because of their invincible ignorance and baptism of desire which
Lionel seems to admit are invisible realities), they would only become visible
members of the Church when their invisible souls are re-united with their
visible bodies at the Parousia.
Lionel:There are no such cases in real
life.
______________________________
On this side of the resurrection of
the body, however, those who are outside of the visible Catholic Church are not
visible exceptions to the principle of EENS as taught by Vatican II and the 1949
Letter of the Holy Office.
Lionel:
??
______________________________
Also, in spite of what Lionel
claims, the 1949 letter is magisterial because it comes from the Holy Office.
Moreover, it was the Holy Office that gave permission for this letter to be made
public in 1952. Fr. Fenton, the Dean of Theology at CUA at the time, confirmed
this before publishing the letter in the American Ecclesiastical
Review in 1952.
Lionel:
It
has made an objective mistake.
If
any one says that invisible people are visible at the same time on earth with
reference to EENS he has contradicted the Principle of Non Contradiction. Even
when the popes from Pius XII to Francis suggest this they are still
wrong.-Lionel Andrades
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