Based on the possibilities are known people saved outside the Church in the present times(2017) theory, the traditionalists have accepted the new theology.Then with this false premise ( invisible possibilities are known people) they interpret Vatican Council II as a rupture with Tradition.
If invisible possibilities (LG 16,UR 3 etc) were not real people for them, there would be no known salvation outside the Church.When there is no known salvation outside the Church for them, then Lumen Gentium 16( invincible ignorance) etc are not exceptions to the strict interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS).Since unknown people cannot be exceptions to EENS.Possibilities are not exceptions.So the interpretation of Vatican Council II would completely change for the traditionalists.
But for the traditionalists and the liberals, possibilities are known exceptions to the dogma EENS and there are three arguments they bring up 1) St. Emerentiana 2)Mystici Corporis and past Church documents 3)Dismas, the Good Thief on the Cross.
ST.EMERENTIANA
St. Emerentiana was not physically seen by anyone in Heaven.She could not be physicaly seen in Heaven without the baptism of water in the Catholic Church.No one on earth had the ability to see her in Heaven.Once she was dead and in Heaven her soul could only be known to God.So she could not be an exception to the dogma EENS in her time or in 2017.There is no proof of an exception.She cannot be an example of salvation outside the Church.
MYSTICI CORPORIS REFERS TO INVISIBLE PEOPLE
Similarly when Mystici Corporis and Quanto Conficiamur refer to the desire of a catechumen for the baptism of water which he does not receive and the case of a non Catholic saved in invincible ignorance of the Gospel through no fault of his own, they refer to invisible people.This is common sense.They are referring to hypothetical cases.
WE DO NOT KNOW OF ANY DISMAS IN THE PRESENT TIMES
Similarly even if Dismas, the Good Thief was saved without the baptism of water, there are no known Dismas' in our time(2017-2018).So theoretically being saved without the baptism of water, as in the case of Dismas, is not an automatic exception to the dogmatic teaching on there being no salvation outside the Church and all needing to be incorporated into the Church as members to avoid the fires of Hell.
UR 2,LG 16, NA 2 REFER TO INVISIBLE PEOPLE,HYPOTHETICAL CASES.
Likewise being saved in imperfect communion with the Church(UR 3), elements of sanctification and truth(UR 3) etc all refer to invisible people in our reality.We cannot meet or see someone saved because of the good and holy things in his religion(NA 2) or who is Rahner's Anonymous Christian.
For Rahner there was an anonymous Christian since he mixes up what is unknown as being known.
For Rahner there was an anonymous Christian since he mixes up what is unknown as being known.
So there is no concrete case, mentioned in Vatican Council II, which could be ' a development' of EENS, which would contradict Feeneyite EENS.
But presently this is not known to Catholics in general.Pope Benedict has misled them. His Catechism of the Catholic Church encourages this error, though, it can also be interpreted without the false premise.
When Pope Benedict said there is 'a development' with EENS(March 2016, Avvenire) and so EENS is no more as it was in the past, the traditionalists could not correct his mistake.Since they too use the same new theology with invisible cases of the baptism of desire etc being visible exceptions to Feeneyite EENS.
When Pope Benedict said there is 'a development' with EENS(March 2016, Avvenire) and so EENS is no more as it was in the past, the traditionalists could not correct his mistake.Since they too use the same new theology with invisible cases of the baptism of desire etc being visible exceptions to Feeneyite EENS.
When he suggested that there is salvation outside the Church according to Vatican Council II, and so the need for mission is being questioned,they should have immediately corrected him.They should have told him that there are no practical exceptions to EENS known to them and so Vatican Council II would also not be mentioning any.
Similarly Pope Francis' moto proprio says he will make saints from among non Catholics.This is based on Pope Benedict's 'known salvation outside the Church'.Pope Francis' also accepts 'possibilities are known people in the present times saved outside the Church'. This is also the new theology of the sedevacantists.With the same new theology ecclesiastical Masonry approved inter faith marriages and rejected the proclamation of the Social Reign of Christ the King.
36. From the Christian confession that there can be only one path to salvation, however, it does not in any way follow that the Jews are excluded from God’s salvation because they do not believe in Jesus Christ as the Messiah of Israel and the Son of God.
Lionel: Yes they are excluded from God's salvation because they do not believe in Jesus and are not members of the Catholic Church. This is the Catholic teaching according to Vatican Council II (Ad Gentes 7 which says all need faith and baptism for salvation), the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus(Council of Florence 1441) and the Bible (John 3:5. Mark 16:16 and many references in the Gospel of St. John).
However here Pope Benedict and Cardinal Kurt Koch would come to the defense of the Jewish Left and say that Vatican Council II says there is salvation outside the Church....
It is here that Catholics should correct the popes even if the Jewish Left rabbis come after them with threats and legal persecution.It would have to be explained to them that references to hypothetical cases in Vatican Council II(Nostra Aetate 2 etc) are not concrete cases.Hypothetical possibilities cannot be exceptions to the strict interpretation of the dogma EENS.Unknown cases of people saved outside the Church are not known exceptions to all Jews and other non Catholics needing faith and baptism in the Catholic Church to avoid Hell.
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23. The Church is called the new people of God (cf. "Nostra aetate", No.4) but not in the sense that the people of God of Israel has ceased to exist.
The Church does not replace the people of God of Israel, since as the community founded on Christ it represents in him the fulfilment of the promises made to Israel.
Lionel: Yes the Catholic Church replaces the Jewish religion.Vatican Council II says all need faith and baptism for salvation(AG 7, LG 14). Jews do not have the baptism of water with Catholic faith at the time of death.
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17. On the part of many of the Church Fathers the so-called replacement theory or supersessionism steadily gained favour until in the Middle Ages (Upto the 1940's it was understood that all Jews and other non Catholics are on the way to Hell.About the time of the creation of the new Zionist state of Israel a change began to be made forcefully) it represented the standard theological foundation of the relationship with Judaism: the promises and commitments of God would no longer apply to Israel because it had not recognised Jesus as the Messiah and the Son of God, but had been transferred to the Church of Jesus Christ which was now the true ‘new Israel’, (Yes) the new chosen people of God.(Yes) Arising from the same soil, Judaism and Christianity in the centuries after their separation became involved in a theological antagonism which was only to be defused at the Second Vatican Council.(Only with Vatican Council II as interpreted by the Masonics and their use of a false premise, invisible people are visible) With its Declaration "Nostra aetate" (No.4) the Church unequivocally professes, within a new theological framework, the Jewish roots of Christianity.(It was never denied.It is something obvious) While affirming salvation through an explicit or even implicit faith in Christ, the Church does not question the continued love of God for the chosen people of Israel.(Affirming only an explicit faith in Christ with membership in the Catholic Church) A replacement or supersession theology (These are terms coined by the Masons and the rest of the Jewish Left to attack Catholic mission to the Jews) which sets against one another two separate entities, a Church of the Gentiles and the rejected Synagogue whose place it takes, is deprived of its foundations.(Exclusivist ecclesiocentism is the identity of the Catholic Church and it cannot be changed now) From an originally close relationship between Judaism and Christianity a long-term state of tension had developed,(A few years back there was a threat of war by Israel against the Vatican ,it was reported in the Italian secular newspapers, over the issue of the Revised Prayer for the Conversion of the Jews) which has been gradually transformed after the Second Vatican Council into a constructive dialogue relationship.(Second Vatican Council II interpreted only with the permitted, false premise)
35. Since God has never revoked his covenant with his people Israel,(with His Death and Resurrection Jesus has made a final and everlasting Covenant) there cannot be different paths or approaches to God’s salvation.(There is only one path, one approach and that is beliving in Jesus and following Him in the Catholic Church) The theory that there may be two different paths to salvation, the Jewish path without Christ and the path with the Christ, whom Christians believe is Jesus of Nazareth, would in fact endanger the foundations of Christian faith. (There is only one path and it is explicit membership in the Church.Vatican Council II(AG 7).
-Lionel Andrades
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/relations-jews-docs/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_20151210_ebraismo-nostra-aetate_en.html
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