Franciscan Friar mistakes me for a Lefebvrist traditionalist

I was telling a Franciscan Friar the other day, whom I met on the bus, that all Jews, Muslims, Protestants, Pentecostals, Orthodox Christians and atheists are on the way to Hell unless they enter the Catholic Church, Jesus' Mystical Body, with Catholic Faith and the baptism of water.Faith and baptism in the Catholic Church.

This is my faith. This is also the Catholic Faith for me.

This is the teaching of Vatican Council II for me . He agreed that this was the teaching of Vatican Council II and the Catholic Church.It was also there in the Catechism and other Church documents, but for him Vatican Council II also said there were exceptions.

He referred to invincible ignorance(I.I) . I said that for me (I.I) was a hypothetical case only on earth. It was only a possibility.We cannot see or meet someone saved in invincible ignorance within or outside the Catholic Church.

For him a possibility was a real person and he asked if for me it meant something that was true or not true and I answered Yes.Finally it could only be known to God.

For him a possibility was a real person saved outside the Church. He thought this was the teaching of Vatican Council II. So he switched on his cellular phone and went to Lumen Gentium in Vatican Council II.

Before he got to the text he asked why are we checking Lumen Gentium. We agreed, that it was to see if when invincible ignorance was mentioned, it referred to someone known in the past ( passato) or it referred to being saved in the present or a possibility in the future(essere).

He checked the text of Lumen Gentium 14-16 and there was no mention of someone saved in invincible ignorance who was known in the past.

 Infatti, quelli che senza colpa ignorano il Vangelo di Cristo e la sua Chiesa ma che tuttavia cercano sinceramente Dio e coll'aiuto della grazia si sforzano di compiere con le opere la volontà di lui, conosciuta attraverso il dettame della coscienza, possono conseguire la salvezza eterna -Lumen Gentium 16.

 possono conseguire la salvezza eterna  They also could be saved.

They could be saved as a possibility, hypothetically. Lumen Gentium 16 does not mention actual cases saved in the past or the present. Obviously, how could it be mentioned. Since we cannot see people saved in Heaven in invincible ignorance.

Physically, no one knew of any  one saved outside the Catholic Church in 1965.

So I told him that I had no problem with I.I in Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church since it refers to a hypothetical case, invisible in 2019.It does not contradict the strict interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus. It never did.

So he knew that the Catholic Church teaches that faith and baptism are the ordinary means of salvation.The norm. The rule.While the Council-text does not state that we personally or physically know of any case of being saved in  I.I.

So I assured him that when I say that all non Catholics and non Christians are oriented to Hell(CDF, Notification, Dupuis,n.7) I was citing Vatican Council II and the Catechism( 1994) and not only referring to the Council of Trent and pre-Vatican Council II documents, as he originally thought.

-Lionel Andrades