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It is incredible how dishonest the liberals on this forum are when they give the impression that Fr. Feeney was the first Catholic to teach that Baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation.
This is so funny it actually made my night. I mean you do realize St. Augustine explicitly taught BOD and Ambrose BOD as well. If you think I'm wrong read Denzinger 388 where Pope Innocent II explains their meaning.
Lionel: Yes - but only as hypothetical cases.Speculation with good will.
Not as exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS).
Some one who does not exist in our reality cannot be a practical exception to EENS.
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But since St. John Chrysostum and St. Gregory Nazienzen have been cited let's do it:
St. John Chrysostom:
Do not wonder that I called martyrdom a baptism: indeed there too the Spirit comes with much abundance, and worksthere the remission of sins and a wonderful and astonishing purification of the soul; and as those who are baptized by waters[are washed], so those who suffer martyrdom are washed in their own blood.
Lionel.: Again only as speculation for us human being.The saint could not see someone in Heaven or earth saved without the baptism of water.The baptism of blood was never an exception to EENS.
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LIBERAL!!!!
St. Gregory Nazianzen Orat. 39, In Sancta Lumina, 17; P.G.35, 356.I know also a Fourth Baptism (besides that of Moses, John,and Jesus)—that by Martyrdom and blood, which also Christ Himself underwent;—and this one is far more august than all the others, inasmuch as it cannot be defiled by after-stains.
LIBERAL!!!
Took me 3 minutes on Google.
No one agrees with Feeney's view on Trent during or after the Council:
Lionel: Those who interpret the baptism of desire(BOD), baptism of blood(BOB) and being saved in invincible ignorance(I.I) as referring to personally known people saved outside the Church, would be irrational. There are not such people in our reality. I call this Cushingism.
Cushingites assumes hypothetical cases of BOD, BOB and I.I are not non hypothetical and objective.
On the other hand, Feeneyites see hypothetical cases of BOD,BOB and I.I as being hypotetical cases only. So they are not exceptions to EENS, the past exclusive ecclesiology of the Catholic Church and an ecumenism of return.
Cushingism today in the Catholic Church is like the Arian heresy of the past. It is widespread. It is heretical yet it is supported by the present two popes.
Not 1 theologianNot 1 catechism
Not 1 pope
Not 1 saint
Not 1 seminary
Lionel: Fr.Leonard Feeney was saying that there are no literal cases of the BOD, BOB and I.I.Neither did any pope state that there are literal cases of the BOD, BOB and I.I known to him which would be an exception to the dogma EENS.So Fr. Leonard Feeney was not the first to maintain that every one needed the baptism of water and Catholic faith for salvation and there are no literally known exceptions.-Lionel Andrades
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