December 19, 2012
LEGIONARIES OF CHRIST ARE NOT TO ANSWER IF THE DEAD ARE VISIBLE TO THEM OR CAN THERE CAN BE TWO INTERPRETATIONS OF THE CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
Today morning I sent the following post to the Legionaries of Christ Communications Director.
LEGIONARIES OF CHRIST THE ISSUE IS HUMAN REASON AND NOT THEOLOGY
I have received this reply.
Lionel…I am a Catholic layman and member of Regnum Christi. I don’t believe there is more for me to say on this topic….Jim
He will not even acknowledge if there can be two interpretations of the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
He will welcome vocations to the religious life but none of them must ask these questions.
Since there are no answers from the Legionaries of Christ.-Lionel Andrades
http://www.legionariesofchrist.org/eng/contactanos/index.phtml?se=253
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LEGIONARIES OF CHRIST THE ISSUE IS HUMAN REASON AND NOT THEOLOGY
I sent the following two blog posts to the Communications Director of the Legion of Christ (Legionaries of Christ).
JIM FAIR COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR OF THE LEGION OF CHRIST DOES NOT ANSWER THE TWO QUESTIONS
FROM ROBERTO DE MATTEI TO THE THEOLOGY DEPTT. OF THE UNIVERSITY
PONTIFICIAL REGINA APOSTOLORUM ROME - A FALSE PREMISE IS USED IN THE
INTERPRETATION OF VATICAN COUNCIL II
He has responded
The Legion of Christ adheres fully to the authentic teaching of the Church’s Magisterium. In the case of theological issues that are being discussed by theologians who have different opinions, and that have not been specifically defined by the Magisterium, it is not within the competency of a religious order to take an official position in support of one of those opinions. It would be more appropriate for you to ask INDIVIDUAL theologians for their personal OPINION rather than a CONGREGATION for an official POSITION. We aren’t interested in trying to make theology a political game.Jim FairCommunications DirectorLegion of Christ312.953.9864
So I have clarified and wait for his answer.
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Dear Jim Fair,
I refer to you as Jim Fair since I am not sure if you are a Legion of Christ priest or a layman.
There is a small misunderstanding and
please let me clarify it.Perhaps you will find that we are saying the
same thing and we agree.
Jim Fair says:
The Legion of Christ adheres fully to the authentic teaching of the
Church’s Magisterium. In the case of theological issues that are being
discussed by theologians who have different opinions, and that have not
been specifically defined by the Magisterium, it is not within the
competency of a religious order to take an official position in support
of one of those opinions. It would be more appropriate for you to ask
INDIVIDUAL theologians for their personal OPINION rather than a
CONGREGATION for an official POSITION. We aren’t interested in trying to
make theology a political game.
The Legion of Christ adheres fully to the authentic teaching of the Church’s Magisterium.
Lionel:
Does the Church's Magisterium teach that the baptism of desire is implicit for us and explicit only for God or does the Magisterium teach that the baptism of desire is explicit and known for us and explicit also for God ?(CC1258)
Does the Church's Magisterium teach that those saved in invincible ignorance are visible and known to us in 2012 or does the Magisteriium teach that they are known only to God?(CCC1260)
This is not theology. It is asking a
question based on human reason, our inability or ability to see the dead
who are now in Heaven.
In the case of theological issues that are being discussed by
theologians who have different opinions, and that have not been
specifically defined by the Magisterium, it is not within the competency
of a religious order to take an official position in support of one of
those opinions.
Lionel:
There is a misunderstanding here. No question on theology is being asked.
It would be more appropriate for you to ask INDIVIDUAL theologians for
their personal OPINION rather than a CONGREGATION for an official
POSITION.
Lionel:
The issue is not theology.
It is about an observation of life which influences theology and philosophy.
If I can see the dead, then my theology and philosophy changes.
If I cannot see the dead saved in Heaven, then my theology and philosophy changes.
Here are the two questions. I have rephrased them:
1) Do we personally know the dead saved in invincible ignorance, a good conscience (LG 16) etc .Can we see them on earth ?
2) Since we do not know any of these cases, can they be exceptions to the literal interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus or will they not be exceptions ?
In Christ
Lionel
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Tuesday, December 18, 2012
JIM FAIR COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR OF THE LEGION OF CHRIST DOES NOT ANSWER THE TWO QUESTIONS
The
Legionaries of Christ spokesman says they accept completely what is in
the Catechism of the Catholic Church but he does not mention which of
the two interpretations.
I sent Jim Fair a blog post and asked for the Legionaries of Christ position on this issue.
Dear Jim Fair,Praised be Jesus and Our Lady.Please let me know the Legionaries of Christ position on this issue:
YEAR OF THE FAITH : VATICAN COUNCIL II AND THE CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AFFIRMS THE LITERAL INTERPRETATION OF THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS
He responded.
Dear Mr. Andrades, As I’m sure you know, this is a topic that generates a good deal of debate. In the case of the Legion, we accept completely what is in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. God Bless….
We both accept the Catechism of the Catholic Church and in the last post I sent you it was mentioned that there were two interpretations of the Catechism. I wanted to know which one was acceptable to the Legion of Christ.
If you could respond to these two questions it would be clear to me which interpretation is accepted by the Legion of Christ.1. In the year 2012 do we know anyone saved in invincible ignorance, the baptism of desire, a good conscience, seeds of the word , imperfect communion with the Church etc ?2. Can these cases be considered exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and the Syllabus of Errors ?.
Mr. Andrades, We uphold the perennial teaching of the Church’s Magisterium, just as it is expressed in the Catechism. Another way to understand it is to say that everyone in Heaven is a member of the Catholic Church, the Mystical Body of Christ. But does that mean that they were all baptized members of the visible Catholic Church on earth? Not necessarily… But HOW that works is hard for us to understand, and theologians argue about it a lot… Anyway, we uphold the teaching of the Church’s Magisterium in this and all controversial theological questions. God Bless….Jim
-Lionel Andrades
https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2012/12/legionaries-of-christ-are-not-to-answer.html
1) Can we in general see dead people who are now saved and are in Heaven? No 2) Are these personally known and physically seen examples of salvation outside the Church in the present times ? No
Obviously we cannot see people physically who are now saved in Heaven and they are not examples on earth of salvation outside the Church yet upon this irrationality is based the New Theology of the Legion of Christ and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.They consider it Magisterial, in other words it is the teaching of the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit has made an objective mistake!, for them.
1) Can we in general see dead people who are now saved and are in Heaven? No 2) Are these personally known and physically seen examples of salvation outside the Church in the present times ? No
Obviously we cannot see people physically who are now saved in Heaven and they are not examples on earth of salvation outside the Church yet upon this irrationality is based the New Theology of the Legion of Christ and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.They consider it Magisterial, in other words it is the teaching of the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit has made an objective mistake!, for them.
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