Repost : Once Vigano and Schneider interpret Vatican Council II without the false premise it will be Michael Sean Winters and the liberals who will have to reject Vatican Council II and turn schismatic

JULY 27, 2020

Once Vigano and Schneider interpret Vatican Council II without the false premise it will be Michael Sean Winters and the liberals who will have to reject Vatican Council II and turn schismatic

This would mean the main line Church- the lay movements for example, have an opportunity to be traditional, conservative and Feeneyite without rejecting the Council.
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Once the mainstream Church interprets Vatican Council II without the false premise the Church would return to exclusive salvation.This would put some of the liberal groups in the minority, or may be in some countries, the fringe category.
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Who still stands with Viganò?  Jul 27, 2020 

by Michael Sean Winters

Now, at long last, most conservatives have come to view Viganò as a liability, not an asset, and they are throwing him under the bus. In his blog "Settimo Cielo," Sandro Magister, the conservative Vaticanista, took on Viganò last week over the archbishop's criticisms of the Second Vatican Council. Magister is not exactly friendly to Francis, but he saw Viganò's wholesale rejection of Vatican II as beyond the pale. "If this rejection by Viganò of the whole of Vatican Council II is not a schismatic act, it is undoubtedly on the brink," Magister wrote. "But who among the bishops and cardinals will want to follow him? Probably no one."

Lionel: But if Vigano interpreted Vatican Council II without the false premise there would be a crisis for Sandro Magister.Since when cardinals and bishops are informed why would they choose to interpret Vatican Council II irrationally ?

Schneider has also called for corrections in certain documents of Vatican II, specifically those that can be seen as the texts that corrected the Syllabus of Errors: Dignitatis humanae and Nostra aetate. 

Lionel: There are no texts in Vatican Council II which contradict the Syllabus of Errors. The Syllabus of Errors is only contradicted when LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 are interpreted as exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS). Yes they would be an exception to the Syllabus of Errors. But this would also be a false premise.

It would be presuming that LG 8 etc refer to known people saved outside the Church for them to be exceptions to EENS.Who among us has see or met an exception to EENS in 2020 ? No one. So the false premise is what is invisible is visible. Then further conclusions are made. A new theology is created.

So only by confusing what is invisible as being visible can Michael Sean Winters like Sandro Magister and Bishop Schneider project exceptions to the Syllabus of Errors.

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These were the texts that caused Archbishop Michel Lefebvre to go into schism, and they continue to cause consternation for those who are dipping their toes into the schismatic waters. (For more on this issue, see my two-part review of Jesuit Fr. Jared Wicks' book Investigating Vatican II here and here.) 

Lionel: Archbishop Lefebvre interpreted Vatican Council II with the false premise and so there was a rupture with Tradition.He then rejected the Council. This is schismatic for Winters.

But I interpret Vatican Council II without the common false premise. So there is no rupture with Tradition. So I am not schismatic. I accept the Council.

Bishop Schneider could do the same as me.So could  

Archbishop  Carlo Vigano.

This would be a correction of the writings of Fr.Jared Wicks sj who interpreted the Council with the false premise and created a non traditional conclusion.

Once Vigano and Schneider interpret Vatican Council II without the false premise it will be Michael Sean Winters and the liberals who will have to reject Vatican Council II and so dip their toes into schismatic waters.

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 Magister cites a letter written by Cardinal Walter Brandmüller — a church historian by training and one of the four cardinals who had signed the "dubia" challenging Francis on the issue of Communion for divorced and remarried Catholics — disputing Schneider and exposing his errors. Magister also wonders why Cardinal Gerhard Müller, ex-prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, has sat on the sidelines in the debate about Vatican II. When you are a conservative and one of the dubia cardinals criticizes you, it is time to recalibrate.

Lionel: What if Brandmuller and Muller interpreted Vatican Council II and other Magisterial documents without the common false premise ? This would be a crisis for Winters and the rest at the National Catholic Reporter. It would mean Catholics in general could accept Vatican Council II in harmony with the Syllabus of Errors. This would mean the main line Church- the lay movements for example, have an opportunity to be traditional, conservative and Feeneyite without rejecting the Council.

Consider the reaction of the liberals in Germany !

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There will always be a fringe element in the church. What is worrisome is when someone tries to mainstream the fringe.

Lionel : Once the mainstream Church interprets Vatican Council II without the false premise the Church would return to exclusive salvation.This would put some of the liberal groups in the minority, or may be in some countries, the fringe category.-Lionel Andrades