Thursday, April 13, 2023

Church Militant TV does not interpret Vatican Council II rationally to avoid losing their tax exempt status and be called a non- Catholic organisation

Bradley Eli and Christine Niles who has have academic degrees in theology, do not interpret Vatican Council II rationally and so as expected, affirm the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS), like in the Fourth Lateran Council (1215)( which did not mention any exceptions), for then they would be told by the Vatican and the Jewish Left, to declare that legally they are not Catholic. They would not be able to claim tax-exemption as a Catholic charitable organization etc.1

So Michael Voris does not interpret Vatican Council II rationally. Otherwise he would have to affirm the strict interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus like the popes and saints over the centuries. For the Church over the centuries the baptism of desire(BOD), baptism of blood(BOB) and invincible ignorance(I.I), were hypothetical cases. So for them over the centuries, BOD,BOB and I.I were not objective examples of salvation outside the Church. So over the centuries BOD, BOB and I.I are not exceptions for the past ecclesiocentrism of the Catholic Church.This is how the Church interpreted this issue before the 1949 Letter of the Holy Office to the Archbishop of Boston. BOD, BOB and I.I were never objective exceptions for Feeneyite EENS.

So having a Masters degree in theology, as in the case of Bradley Lee, makes no difference. It is obligatory to interpret Vatican Council II irrationally (invisible cases of LG 14, LG 16 etc are visible in the present times).This is the officially approved theology at the pontifical universities and for the judges at the ecclesiastical courts.

In this way they can reject EENS according to the Council of Florence (1442).This is official deception. It is now approved by the popes and the Left since Pius XII. The main issue in the Catholic Church is now Vatican Council II. How do you interpret it, rationally or irrationally? If you interpret it rationally a Decree of Prohibitions will be issued against you by the Vatican. Your organisation will lose its tax exempt status as a charitable organisation. You will be will prohibited from legally calling yourself a Catholic. Since the interpretation of Vatican Council II is now a political issue. Even the SSPX and the sedevacantists are interpreting the Council politically and not rationally.

So when Bradley Eli and Michael Voris interpret Vatican Council II irrationally, politically and unethically it results in heresy and schism. It is a break with the traditional interpretation of the Councils, the dogma EENS and the Catechisms, on BOD, BOB and I.I etc. It is unethical because of the irrational premise and inference. It is also a mortal sin of faith. It is a scandal.

I interpret Vatican Council II rationally and

traditionally. There is no break with Tradition. My interpretation is simple, traditional and Catholic. -Lionel Andrades

Out of pastoral concern for those who work, live at, or reside near the Saint Benedict Center, the bishop of Manchester arranged for the celebration of the extraordinary form of the Mass at the Saint Stanislaus Church in Winchester.^[25] The group was further directed to amend its IRS 501(c)(3), filing to remove any representation that it was affiliated with the Catholic Church.^[26] The group appealed to the Vatican to lift the precepts of prohibition placed upon them. In February 2021, the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith held that the appeal had not been completed before the statute of limitations ran out, therefore the group must conform with the precepts.

https://www.unionleader.com/news/religion/vatican-rejects-slaves-of-the-immaculate-heart-of-mary-appeal/article_cf5ffceb-47de-5f9f-8098-aa6e3ffa2e26.html

Vatican rejects Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary appeal

By Damien Fisher Union Leader Correspondent

The ultra-traditionalist Catholic organization located in Richmond, the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, had their appeal of Bishop Peter Libasci’s restrictions on them rejected by Vatican officials.

“Rome chose not to consider the appeal,” said Rev. Georges de Laire, the judicial vicar and vicar for canonical affairs for the Diocese of Manchester.

The Slaves, who operate the St. Benedict Center on Fay Martin Road, were ordered to stop calling themselves a Catholic organization in January 2019 under the terms of a letter sent to the group by the diocese.

The group was given an extensive list of prohibitions in the precepts letter, including a restriction against raising money for any Catholic entity, and a restriction on having any priest celebrate Mass or any of the Catholic sacraments at its compound. New Hampshire Catholics are warned to stay away from the group.

The leader of the group, Louis Villarubia, who goes by Brother Andre Marie, did not respond to a request for comment.

The group appealed the orders to the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, or CDF, the Vatican governing body that defends Catholic teaching. However, they missed the deadline for that appeal, according to de Laire.

“The decision from CDF says that it was rejected because it fell outside the statute of limitations,” de Laire said. “The decision holds them to the observance of the decree.”

The ruling means that the Slaves must now follow the same rules as all other Catholics, de Laire said. The dispute between the diocese and the Slaves goes back to the Slaves’ founding principles. The Slaves were started by the Rev. Leonard Feeney in the 1950s. Feeney held anti-Semitic beliefs and was for a time excommunicated from the Roman Catholic Church.

Feeney also taught that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. While that is the official doctrine of the church, the way the Slaves interpret that teaching has put them on the wrong side of Rome, according to letters from the CDF to Villarubia.

The group’s strict adherence to the Catholic teaching of “no salvation outside the Church” is in conflict with the instructions it received years ago from the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith. The CDF’s undersecretary, Monsignor Giacomo Morandi, wrote in a 2016 letter that the group’s theological position was “unacceptable,” and not subject to further discussion.

The group does not allow for the possibility that non-Catholics can be saved through the grace of God, which goes against the full teaching of the church, according to Morandi’s letter.

Villarubia, like the Slaves’ original founder, Feeney, has a history of making anti-Semitic remarks, which has garnered notoriety for the Slaves. Villarubia has called Jewish people the “worst enemy of the Church.”

The Slaves in Richmond are a splinter group that left the Still River, Mass., Slaves organization after Feeney reconciled with Rome shortly before his death. The Slaves in Massachusetts are no longer connected to the Richmond group.

Talks are now underway between de Laire and the Slaves on how they can live in compliance with the bishop’s demands.

“We are now engaged in an effort to dialogue, to encourage them to observe the (2019) document,” de Laire said. “It is a complicated relationship that the diocese has with the Slaves and vice-versa.”

Since Libasci’s precepts were published and the Slaves lost the right to have a priest celebrate Mass at their compound, Libasci has arranged for a priest from Nashua travel every Sunday to St. Stanislaus Church in Winchester to celebrate a Mass in in Latin using the pre-Vatican II form of the liturgy.

This is at the same time that Keene’s Parish of the Holy Spirit, which oversees the Winchester church, has been forced to eliminate Mass in English in Winchester because of a lack of priests.

De Laire said there is hope that the rift between the Slaves and Manchester can be mended, and Libasci remains dedicated to serving them as bishop.

“The bishop remains hopeful that a solution can be identified,” de Laire said. “The bishop is committed to the Slaves and their supporters, as they are members of the church and he owes them ministry.”

In 2009, the group’s then-leader, Brother Francis Maluf, signed a letter of obedience to then Bishop John McCormack renouncing anti-Semitism, and several articles about Jewish people were removed from the group’s website. McCormack then allowed the group to bring in a priest of good standing to celebrate Mass for them in Richmond.

https://www.unionleader.com/news/religion/vatican-rejects-slaves-of-the-immaculate-heart-of-mary-appeal/article_cf5ffceb-47de-5f9f-8098-aa6e3ffa2e26.html

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APRIL 12, 2023

Bradley Eli and the Vatican official mean the SSPX has to interpret and accept Vatican Council II irrational and not rational.

VATICAN OFFICIAL: SSPX MUST SIGN DOCTRINAL DECLARATION

by Bradley Eli, M.Div., Ma.Th. • ChurchMilitant.com • May 12, 2017

ABP. POZZO: THE BALL'S IN THEIR COURT

ROME (ChurchMilitant.com) - A top Vatican official is saying the Society of St. Pius X (SSPX), headed by Bp. Bernard Fellay, must sign a doctrinal declaration involving Vatican II before they can reunite with the Church.

Lionel:Bradley Eli and the Vatican official mean the SSPX has to accept Vatican Council II irrational and not rational. The SSPX has to interpret LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc irrationally and not rationally. They have to assume that LG 8 etc are objective cases in the present times, examples of salvation outside the Church and so the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (ENS) has become obsolete.

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In a report published Thursday, Abp. Guido Pozzo, secretary of the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei, the body tasked with facilitating the reunion with Rome of traditional breakaway groups like the SSPX, is saying, "The reconciliation will occur when Monsignor Fellay formally adheres to the doctrinal declaration that the Holy See presented to him. This is also the necessary condition to then proceed to the institutional regularization with the creation of a personal prelature."

Reportedly, Abp. Pozzo sees the proper interpretation of Vatican II as an essential element of this declaration. According to the report, "Guido Pozzo points out that the key to reconciliation lies in understanding the Second Vatican Council. The interpretations that were promoted by some theologians, intellectuals and the media have encouraged ruptures similar to the Lefebvrians."

Lionel: Vatican Council II interpreted with a false premise, causes a rupture with Tradition. There are alleged exceptions for the dogma EENS, the Athanasius Creed and the Syllabus of Errors of Pius X. Archbishop Guido Pozzo, Archbishop Augustine di Noia, Archbishop Giacomo Morandi and Cardinal Luiz Ladaria sj have always been interpreting Vatican Council II with a false premise. Politically they need to produce a rupture with Tradition.

The archbishop affirmed Thursday that the misinterpretations about the council's 16 documents led to misperceptions of the council by the SSPX, which diverged from Church teaching.

"This contradiction, this 'overlap,'" noted Pozzo, "has generated that climate of conflict, confusion and uncertainty about the Council's interpretation, which is at the root of the criticisms and difficulties raised by the Fraternity of St. Pius X."

Lionel: In 2012 the General Chapter of the SSPX issued a Statement in which they affirmed the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus according to the past Church Councils(1215 and 1442).This was the dogma EENS with no exceptions.

This Statement would have been rejected by the Vatican for political reasons.

http://archives.sspx.org/superior_generals_news/2012_general_chapter/2012_general_chapter_statement_7-19-2012.htm

During an interview in March, Abp. Pozzo likewise contrasted the so-called "spirit of Vatican II" as being essentially the problem rather than what the "true council" actually taught.

"The problem is therefore not the Second Vatican Council as such, but a certain way of understanding, applying and practicing the Council, the so-called 'spirit of the Council,'" he explained. "Pope Benedict XVI has spoken of a 'true council' and a 'virtual council,' the latter being the fruit of the mass media, the modernist currents of theology, in other words the 'conciliation ideology' that superimposed the genuine mens (mind) of the Council's Fathers."

Lionel: The liberalism, the ‘spirit of the Council’, ‘the true Council of Pope Benedict’ and the ‘conciliation ideology’ of Pope Benedict are all produced by interpreting Vatican Council II irrationally. Without the irrational premise and inference there is no non traditional conclusion. There is no liberalism. The mass media and modernist theologians choose the rational premise to produce the politically needed break with Tradition (EENS, Syllabus etc).

In March 2009, Pope Benedict XVI wrote a letter explaining the SSPX separation is doctrinal in nature and not merely canonical or legal:

The fact that the Society of Saint Pius X does not possess a canonical status in the Church is not, in the end, based on disciplinary but on doctrinal reasons. ... In order to make this clear once again: Until the doctrinal questions are clarified, the society has no canonical status in the Church, and its ministers — even though they have been freed of the ecclesiastical penalty — do not legitimately exercise any ministry in the Church. ... In light of this situation, it is my intention henceforth to join the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei — the body which has been competent since 1988 for those communities and persons who, coming from the Society of Saint Pius X or from similar groups, wish to return to full communion with the Pope — to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. This will make it clear that the problems now to be addressed are essentially doctrinal in nature and concern primarily the acceptance of the Second Vatican Council and the post-conciliar magisterium of the Popes.

Lionel: The ‘doctrinal question’ has never been clarified by Pope Benedict. The doctrinal issue of the false premise and inference has never been discussed by anyone at the Vatican. At the Vatican-SSPX Doctrinal talks during the pontificate of Pope Benedict, both sides were interpreting Vatican Council II with the same false premise. Cardinal Luiz Ladaria sj accepted the non traditional and heretical conclusion and the SSPX side rejected it, as always.

Pope Francis will not say that he interprets LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc as being only hypothetical and theoretical. So they are not objective exceptions for the dogma EENS according to the past Church Councils which defined EENS.He will not admit that Vatican Council II supports EENS with Ad Gentes 7 and Lumen Gentium 14 and the Catechism of the Catholic Church 845,846, while the baptism of desire (LG 14),being saved in invincible ignorance(LG16), UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc, are not objective exceptions for AG 7 and LG 14 or CCC 845,846.

He continued:

The Church's teaching authority cannot be frozen in the year 1962 — this must be quite clear to the society. But some of those who put themselves forward as great defenders of the council also need to be reminded that Vatican II embraces the entire doctrinal history of the Church. Anyone who wishes to be obedient to the council has to accept the Faith professed over the centuries, and cannot sever the roots from which the tree draws its life.

Lionel: This is false. This is a political left statement.I interpret the Council with the rational premise and so there is no break with the dogma EENS according to the Church Councils. I interpret LG 8,14 and 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc as being only hypothetical cases. So they do not contradict Feeneyite EENS i.e EENS according to the Fourth Lateran Council (1215) etc. So this 'embraces the entire doctrinal history of the Church'.This is 'the Faith professed over the centuries', 'the roots' from which the ecclesiastical tree draws life..

Obviously Pope Benedict and Pope Francis have not been saying the same thing. They have chosen the hermeneutic of rupture.- Lionel Andrades

https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/vatican-official-sspx-must-sign-doctrinal-declaration

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APRIL 12, 2023

Bishop Athanasius Schneider chooses heresy and schism to remain a bishop in the Catholic Church

Bishop Athanasius Schneider said that there are no literal cases of the baptism of desire. Dr. Taylor Marshall agreed with him in the interview. Marshall said there are no explicit cases of St. Thomas Aquinas’ implicit baptism of desire. This is a given. We cannot meet or see someone saved with the baptism of desire. We cannot give someone the baptism of desire. But even though he understood all this, Bishop Schneider did not interpret Vatican Council II rationally. In subsequent interviews with Steve Bannon and Eric Sammons he did not say that LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc are not practical exceptions for the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS) of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215).

He knows by now that the irrational premise produces heresy and schism. It changes the interpretation of the Creeds. This is an impediment to offering Holy Mass. It violates Canon Law.

Why? Why did he not tell them that there were no explicit cases of LG 8, 14 and 16? There are no literal cases of NA 2, UR 3 or GS 22 known to us since 1965.

May be he received a threat.

He could have been told that if he would interpret Vatican Council II rationally he could not be a bishop in the Catholic Church. He could not be juridical person in the Catholic Church. May be even legally, he could not be allowed to call himself Catholic.

There was a priest some 20 years back in the USA.It was said that he interpreted extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS) according to the Catechism of the Catholic Church (845,846/LG 14) and Tradition. The American bishops asked him to leave the Church. He went to live with a Protestant community. He was literally outside the Church, for the USCCB and the Left, for non politically, affirming the dogma EENS in harmony with the Catechism of the Catholic Church and Vatican Council II.I was told about this story by a seminarian friend when I was at the Legion of Christ seminary in Rome.

This was about the time the Legion of Christ priests at their university UPRA and seminary PIMME in Rome were telling me I had to choose between becoming a priest in Rome or accepting Feeneyite EENS.I was reminded about Fr. Leonard Feeney and was told my scholarship from Propaganda Fide would be cancelled.

Same old story. I stayed with EENS and worked on my misconceptions on Vatican Council II until I tied up that loose end too.

The USCCB over the last 20 years and more has been interpreting Vatican Council II irrationally and not rationally. Since this is a political issue. For them, there exist, literal and explicit cases of the baptism of desire.

How can you have a Church with everyone accepting Vatican Council II interpreted irrationally for political reasons? – Lionel Andrades

APRIL 10, 2023

What if there is no development of doctrine, no development of EENS in Vatican Council II? What if Bishop Athanasius Schneider is wrong? What if the new theology is based on a mistake in perception?What if Pope Benedict was wrong? When will Bishop Athansius Schneider discuss this? (April 26,2016)

TUESDAY, APRIL 26, 2016

What if?

There have been so many reports on this blog but Bishop Athanasius Schneider will still not affirm the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS) according to the 16th century missionaries.So he had no comment when Pope Benedict said the dogma had been developed by Vatican Council II.

Bishop Schneider agrees with Pope Benedict. For both of them hypothetical qualities mentioned in Vatican Council II are explicit, objective,seen in the flesh exceptions in 2016 to all needing to enter the Church with no exceptions.

In Bishop Athanasius Schnieder's mind the Baltimore Catechism and the Catechism of Pope Pius X was correct.Since it placed the baptism of desire in the section on Baptism, the baptism of water.In his mind the baptism of desire is known like the baptism of water.It is repeatable like the baptism of water and it's results are the same, it is accepted in faith; it is the same as the baptism of water in personal cases.

The baptism of desire is concrete for him, similar to the baptism of water.

So for him the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 was correct in criticizing Fr.Leonard Feeney for not accepting the baptism of desire etc.as a known exceptions to the dogma EENS.This was also the reasoning of the popes from Pope Pius XII to Pope Francis.

So Vatican Council II has developed too like the dogma EENS.The dogma EENS has exceptions,for Bishop Athanasius Schneider.Vatican Council II also mentions these exceptions ( LG 16).

But now after some 70-plus years it is being asked what if LG 16, LG 8, UR 3 et refer to hypothetical cases?

Then would the baptism of desire, a hypothetical case, be an exception to EENS?

What if if these cases were invisible for us? What if the baptism of desire was known only to God?

What if no one in Baltimore knew of a baptism of desire case? What if no one saw or knew of the results of a baptism of desire case?

Did Pius X know of someone saved with the baptism of desire? Was it concrete for him?

'Zero cases of something are not exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus'.These are the words of John Martignoni. Not mine.

So many people since then have said the same thing.Except Bishop Athanasius Schnieder.

What if there is no development of doctrine, no development of EENS in Vatican Council II?

What if?

What if Bishop Athanasius Schneider is wrong?

What if the new theology is based on a mistake in perception?

What if Pope Benedict was wrong?

There is no known development in EENS.

Vatican Council II has not developed EENS.

When will Bishop Athansius Schneider discuss this?

-Lionel Andrades

Bishop Athanasius Schneider misses the bus again

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2016/04/bishop-athanasius-schneider-misses-bus.html

APRIL 10, 2023

I have said it before. Everyone agrees with me. I am only being rational. I affirm the official teachings of the Church. I am faithful to the Magisteriuim. Only when Magisterial Documents are interpreted ethically that they can be Magisterial Magisterial Documents can only be interpreted rationally. This is ethical. There is no liberalism in what I say.

APRIL 2, 2023

I have said it before. Everyone agrees with me

I have said it before. Everyone agrees with me.

At Holy Mass in Italian or Latin everyone agrees with me. I could show them these three charts and they all will agree with me.

1) Salvation Badge (extended)

2) Invisible cases in Vatican Council II.

3) Exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church today.

So they are all Feeneyite on extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS). They support, as Catholics, the dogma EENS defined by the Fourth Lateran Council (1215),the Council of Florence, Cantate Domino (1442), the Catechism of Pius X and the other catechisms, the Athanasius Creed, the Syllabus of Errors of Pius IX, Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church of Pope John Paul II, interpreted rationally.

They would all agree with me at the Latin Mass at the SSPX chapel in Rome or the Salesian basilica of the Sacred Heart, Termini, Rome. They would agree with me at the Paulist Fathers’ church of St. Patrick, for the American community in Rome. It would be the same at the Daughters of St. Paul book shop near the Vatican and the FSSP church in Rome.

So irrespective if they used the 1962 Missal or the New Missal they would agree with me on these three documents above.

Why? Since I am saying something obvious. It is common knowledge. It is common sense. It is a philosophical observation. It is something physically see by all people irrespective of their theology or religion. So even Pope Francis and all the cardinals and bishops would have to agree with me. All.

The whole Church is really saying the same

thing as me. There is no division on this issue.

This is not a personal view only. It is

everyone’s view. Even the cardinals and

bishops at the Vatican agree with me. - Lionel Andrades

1. SALVATION BADGE (Extended)

OUTSIDE THE CHURCH THERE IS NO

SALVATION

JOHN 3:5, MARK 16:16

VATICAN COUNCIL II (Ad Gentes 7/

Lumen Gentes 14)

CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC

CHURCH 846

CATECHISM OF TRENT, CATECHISM

OF POPE PIUS X

FOURTH LATERAN COUNCIL (1215),

COUNCIL OF FLORENCE (1442)

Name:Lionel Andrades

https://twitter.com/AndradesLionel

E-mail: lionelandrades10@gmail.com

Blog: eucharistandmission ( Lionel’s blog).

THE BAPTISM OF DESIRE (BOD), BAPTISM OF BLOOD(BOB) AND BEING SAVED IN INVINCIBLE IGNORANCE (I.I) ARE ALWAYS HYPOTHETICAL AND PHYSICALLY INVISIBLE CASES. SO THEY DO NOT CONTRADICT THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS (EENS).THE BOD, BOB AND I.I ARE NOT KNOWN PEOPLE IN PERSONAL CASES. THERE ARE NO PHYSICALLY VISIBLE CASES OF BEING SAVED IN INVINCIBLE IGNORANCE.SO THEY ARE NOT OBJECTIVE EXCEPTIONS FOR THE DOGMA EENS IN 1965-2023.AD GENTES 7 AND LUMEN GENTIUM 14 SUPPORT THE DOGMA EENS .LG 8,14, 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 ETC ARE NOT PRACTICAL EXCEPTIONS FOR AG 7/ LG 14 AND THE DOGMA EENS. THE COUNCIL HAS THE HERMENEUTIC OF CONTINUITY WITH THE SYLLABUS OF ERRORS, THE ATHANASIUS CREED AND THE CATECHISM OF POPE PIUS X ( 24Q,27Q).

2. INVISIBLE CASES

THESE ARE REFERENCES TO INVISIBE CASES IN 2023. THEY ARE NOT VISIBLE EXAMPLES OF SALVATION OUTSIDE THE CHURCH. THEY ARE NOT OBJECTIVE EXCEPTIONS FOR THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS, THE ATHANASIUS CREED AND THE SYLLABUS OF ERRORS OF POPE PIUS IX.

This Church constituted and organized in the world as a society, subsists in the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him,(13*) although many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside of its visible structure. These elements, as gifts belonging to the Church of Christ, are forces impelling toward catholic unity.- Lumen Gentium 8, Vatican Council II

Catechumens who, moved by the Holy Spirit, seek with explicit intention to be incorporated into the Church are by that very intention joined with her. With love and solicitude Mother Church already embraces them as her own. - Lumen Gentium 14, Vatican Council II

But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator… Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience.- Lumen Gentium 16, Vatican Council II.

Moreover, some and even very many of the significant elements and endowments which together go to build up and give life to the Church itself, can exist outside the visible boundaries of the Catholic Church: the written word of God; the life of grace; faith…

… These liturgical actions must be regarded as capable of giving access to the community of salvation. – Unitatis Redintigratio 3 Vatican Council II

The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men. – Nostra Aetate 2, Vatican Council II.

All this holds true not only for Christians, but for all men of good will in whose hearts grace works in an unseen way. For, since Christ died for all men, and since the ultimate vocation of man is in fact one, and divine, we ought to believe that the Holy Spirit in a manner known only to God offers to every man the possibility of being associated with this paschal mystery.- Gaudium et Specs 22, Vatican Council II

3. EXCLUSIVE SALVATION IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH TODAY

14. This Sacred Council wishes to turn its attention firstly to the Catholic faithful. Basing itself upon Sacred Scripture and Tradition, it teaches that the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation. Christ, present to us in His Body, which is the Church, is the one Mediator and the unique way of salvation. In explicit terms He Himself affirmed the necessity of faith and baptism124 and thereby affirmed also the necessity of the Church, for through baptism as through a door men enter the Church…- Lumen Gentium 14, Vatican Council II

Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door.-Ad Gentes 7

CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH 845-846

845 To reunite all his children, scattered and led astray by sin, the Father willed to call the whole of humanity together into his Son's Church. The Church is the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation. The Church is "the world reconciled." She is that bark which "in the full sail of the Lord's cross, by the breath of the Holy Spirit, navigates safely in this world." According to another image dear to the Church Fathers, she is prefigured by Noah's ark, which alone saves from the flood.- Catechism of the Catholic Church

846 …Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door…

Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic faith. Which faith unless every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.-Athanasius Creed

Fourth Lateran Council (1215): "There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved."

ONLY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

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APRIL 12, 2023

Feeneyism says invisible cases are invisible .The baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance are physically invisible for us. So they are not exceptions for the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus

APRIL 8, 2023

Two versions of Feeneyism : Wikipedia needs to be updated

Leonard Edward Feeney (February 18, 1897 – January 30, 1978) was an American Jesuit priest, poet, lyricist, and essayist.

He articulated a strict interpretation of the Roman Catholic doctrine extra Ecclesiam nulla salus ("outside the Church there is no salvation"). He took the position that baptism of blood and baptism of desire are unavailing and that therefore no non-Catholics will be saved - Wikipedia

Lionel :

unavailing : Fr. Leonard Feeney means there are 'no known and visible cases' of the baptism of desire to contradict the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

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Wikipedia

Feeneyism is a Christian doctrine, associated with Leonard Feeney, which advocates an interpretation of the dogma extra Ecclesiam nulla salus ("outside the Church there is no salvation") which is that only Catholics can go to heaven and that only those baptised with water can go to heaven. Feeneyism opposes the doctrines of baptism of desire and baptism of blood as well as the view that non-Catholics can go to heaven.

Feeneyism is considered a heresy by the Catholic Church; some Catholics refer to Feeneyism as the Boston heresy. - Wikipedia

Lionel :

Feeneyism is a Catholic doctrine, associated with Leonard Feeney and the Fourth Lateran Council (12159 and the Council of Florence (1442) which defined extra ecclesiam nulla salus as a dogma of the Catholic Church. These Councils advocate an interpretation of the dogma extra Ecclesiam nulla salus ("outside the Church there is no salvation") which is that only Catholics can go to heaven and that only those baptised with water can go to heaven. If a non Catholic goes to Heaven he will be a Catholic there and not a non Catholic.

Feeneyism does not oppose the doctrines of baptism of desire and baptism of blood but considres them specualtive and hypothetical and known only to God, if they exist . So they do not contradict the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus , which says that in Heaven there are only Catholics.

Feeneyism is considered a heresy by the the Jewish Left and their supporters in the Catholic Church who refer to to Feeneyism as the Boston heresy. Other Catholics refer to the Boston Heresy as the heresy of Pope Pius XII, Cardinal Richard Cushing and the Jesuits. They assumed unknown and invisible cases of the baptism of desire etc were visible and known exceptions for EENS according the the Church Councils in the Middle Ages.- L.ionel Andrades

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CONDEMNATION OF FEENEYISM[EDIT]

In a 1949 letter to Cardinal Cushing, Archbishop of Boston, the Holy Office condemned Feeney's teaching that only those formally baptized in the Catholic Church can be saved. The Holy Office affirmed that those baptized by their desire can be saved. This letter was sent by Cardinal Francesco Marchetti Selvaggiani to Cardinal Cushing. This letter stated among other things:^[9]^[10]

The same in its own degree must be asserted of the Church, in as far as She is the general help to salvation. Therefore, that one may obtain eternal salvation, it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member, but it is necessary that at least he be united to Her by desire and longing. However, this desire need not always be explicit, as it is in catechumens; but when a person is involved in invincible ignorance God accepts also an implicit desire, so called because it is included in that good disposition of soul whereby a person wishes his will to be conformed to the will of God. These things are clearly taught in that dogmatic letter which was issued by the Sovereign Pontiff, Pope Pius XII, on June 29, 1943, On the Mystical Body of Jesus Christ (AAS, Vol. 35, an. 1943, p. 193 ff.). For in this letter the Sovereign Pontiff clearly distinguishes between those who are actually incorporated into the Church as members, and those who are united to the Church only by desire.— Letter of the Holy Office

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feeneyism

Lionel :

Therefore, that one may obtain eternal salvation, it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member

The dogma EENS of the Church Councils says that one needs to be a member of the Catholic Church for salvation and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith is here saying in this Letter that one does not have to be a member. This is heresy. It is also schism with the Magisterium over the centuries.

The Letter also confuses invisible cases of the BOD, BOB and I.I as visible exceptions for the strict interpretation of EENS, of the Church Councils and Fr. Leonard Feeney. This is irrational. It is also unethical and dishonest. This is a scandal.

Vatican Council II (Wikipedia)

Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution Lumen gentium, 14: "They could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it, or to remain in it."
Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution Lumen gentium, 16: "Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things, and as Saviour wills that all men be saved. Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience. Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life."

The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that the phrase, "Outside the Church there is no salvation", means, if put in positive terms, that "all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body", and it "is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church".^[44]

At the same time, it adds: "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."

The Church has also declared that "she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter", and that "those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways." - Wikipedia

Lionel :

Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution Lumen Gentium, 14: "They could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it, or to remain in it."

Those who are in invincible ignorance and who are saved are known only to God. So these are not practical exceptions for the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS). We must not confuse what is invisible as being visible.

Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution Lumen Gentium, 16: "Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things, and as Saviour wills that all men be saved. Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience. Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life."

Lionel:

Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience.

Yes hypothetically and it will include Catholic faith and baptism of water since this the teaching of the Councils, Catechisms and Creeds.

Hypothetical cases must not be projected as being objective exceptions for the dogma EENS in 1949-2023.

Lionel : Yes all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body and all need to enter the Church with faith and baptism to avoid Hell ( for salvation). There are no physically visible exceptions (Council of Florence etc). Those who through no fault of their own who do not know Christ and His Church also need to enter the Church as members to be saved from Hell. If anyone is saved in invincible ignorance, he or she would only be known to God. In Heaven he or she would be a Catholic. God would provide a preacher to teach them the faith and baptise them, as St. Thomas Aquinas said. The norm for salvation is faith and baptism (AG 7) and not invincible ignorance(LG 14 etc).There are not 'explicit' and 'literal' cases of being saved in invincible ignorance or the baptism of desire.

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Extra ecclesiam nulla salus (Wikipedia)

Strict interpretation[edit]

See also: Feeneyism

Some sedevacantists called Feeneyists (such as the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary of New Hampshire) believe that only baptized Catholics can be saved. They reject of concept of baptism by desire and baptism of blood, and say that only a properly performed rite with the use of water and the requisite words is sufficient

Lionel : The Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary in New Hampshire, USA are not sedevacantists. They accept Pope Francis as the pope.They believe that only baptised Catholics who live the Catholic Faith and die without mortal sins on their soul can be saved since this is the teaching of the Catholic Church. This is the teaching of the Church in Magisterial Documents interpreted rationally.

This is the teaching of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215) and the Council of Florence (1442) which did not mention any exceptions. The two Councils are not contradicted by hypothetical and unknown cases of the baptism of desire (BOD), baptism of blood(BOB) and being saved in invincible ignorance(I.I).

The two Councils and the BOD, BOB and I.I are interpreted rationally by the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary. They do not confuse what is invisible as being visible and then project false exceptions for the dogma EENS. So they do not reject BOD, BOB and I.I which can only be hypothetical.They do not project them as exceptions for Feeneyite EENS.- Lionel Andrades

SALVATION AND THE CHURCH

by Bradley Eli M.Div., Ma.Th. • ChurchMilitant.com • August 31, 2020

LUKE 13:23: 'LORD, ARE THEY FEW THAT ARE SAVED?'

The Catholic Church infallibly teaches the truth that "Outside the Church, there is no salvation." The Church isn't saying here that only Catholics go to Heaven but that all graces needed for salvation originate in Christ and pass through His Mystical Body, the Church.

Lionel: The Catholic Church is saying here that there are only Catholics in Heaven. If there are non Catholics who are going to Heaven, in Heaven they will only be Catholic. The Church is saying this when Magisterial Documents( Councils, Creeds and Catechisms) are interpreted rationally and not irrationally. Bradley Eli interprets Vatican Council II irrationally.

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Section 846 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church affirms that this dogma does mean "All salvation comes from Christ the head through the Church, which is His body."

Lionel: Yes all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church, which is His Body and all need to enter the Catholic Church with faith and the baptism of water for salvaton ( Ad Gentes 7, Lumen Gentium 14, Catechism of the Catholic Church 845, 846, Fourth Lateran Council (1215) etc). When Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church are interpreted rationally there is no contradiction. There is no rupture with the Fourth Council of Florence (1215) on the strict interpretation of EENS, with no known exceptions.

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Those unable to know this truth have what's called invincible ignorance. A little Jewish girl who dies at the age of 6 might be such a person.

Lionel : Yes there could be someone in invincible ignorance and if the person is to be saved this case would only be known to God. For us humans they are theoretical and speculative. We cannot point out any person and say that this or that person will go to Heaven even if he is in invincible ignorance. We cannot meet or see someone saved in invincible ignorance. They are invisible in our reality. So they are not practical exceptions for the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus ( Council of Florence 1442).

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Of these, Pope Pius IX in his 1863 encyclical, Quanto Conficiamur Moerore, wrote:

It is known to Us and to you that they who labor in invincible ignorance of our most holy religion and who, zealously keeping the natural law and its precepts engraved in the hearts of all by God, and being ready to obey God, live an honest and upright life, can, by the operating power of divine light and grace, attain eternal life, since God ... will by no means suffer anyone to be punished with eternal torment who has not the guilt of deliberate sin.

Lionel: Yes and we cannot project this case of invincible ignorance as an exception for the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS). It was known to Pope Pius IX that these are theoretical cases and not objective exceptions for the dogma EENS.That these are hypothetical cases is common sense. It was known through the centuries.

It was only in 1949 in the Letter of the Holy Office (CDF) that a mistake was made. It was assumed that invincible ignorance was a visible case. Bradley Eli makes this mistake. This is the common formation- error in the Catholic seminaries and universities all over the world.

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As cited in Denzinger §1677, Pius IX adds:

But, the Catholic dogma that no one can be saved outside the Catholic Church is well known; and also that those who are obstinate toward the authority and definitions of the same Church, and who persistently separate themselves from the unity of the Church, and from the Roman Pontiff, the successor of Peter, to whom "the guardianship of the vine has been entrusted by the Savior," cannot obtain eternal salvation.

Lionel : The 1949 Letter of the Holy Office was placed in the Denzinger by the liberals. It was put there along with its objective mistake. Catholics are not obligated to follow the second part of the 1949 LOHO which contradicts the first part which affirmed traditional EENS. It does this with a fake premise.

The 1949 LOHO is not Magisterial, even though it was accepted by Rahner, Ratzinger, Kung and Congar, since the Holy Spirit cannot make an objective mistake. With this objective mistake, confusing what is invisible as being visible, unknown as being known, alleged practical exceptions were created for the Magisterial interpretation of EENS over the centuries.

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Vatican II repeats this admonition in Lumen Gentium §14: "Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved. ... Not only shall they not be saved but they will be the more severely judged."

Lionel : Yes whoever knows and does not enter is oriented to Hell. But it does not mean that we know of any one in particular who will go to Heaven outside the Church, with invincible ignorance. All people in general need Catholic faith and the baptism of water for salvation (AG 7). All. Those who know and those who do not know, need to accept Jesus in only the Catholic Church for salvation ( to avoid Hell ). Lumen Gentium 14 refers to those ‘who know’ since the Council Fathers, the liberals, interpreted 'being saved in invincible ignorance', irrationally, like the 1949 LOHO. They assumed that the baptism of desire (BOD) and being saved in invincible ignorance (I.I) referred to 'known and visible non Catholics' in 1949-1965 who were saved outside the Catholic Church, without faith and the baptism of water. But the Councils from the 12^th to the 16^th century are clear. All need to be members of the Church for salvation. All. The word all is also used in Ad Gentes 7. It says all need faith and the baptism of water, for salvation (AG 7, Vatican Council II) The BOD and I.I are not exceptions or relevant for AG 7 or the dogma EENS.

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Religious pluralism (Wikipedia)

The Catholic Church, unlike some Protestant denominations, affirms "developmental theology," understood to mean that the "Holy Spirit, in and through the evolving and often confused circumstances of concrete history, is gradually bringing the Church to an ever more mature understanding of the deposit of faith (the saving truths entrusted by Jesus Christ to the Apostles—these as such cannot be changed or added to). The Church comes to recognize baptism of desire quite early in its history. Later, the Church realizes that Romans 2:14–16, for example, allows for the salvation of non-Christians who do not have unobstructed exposure to Christian teachings: "When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires… They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts…^[25] Various forms of "implicit faith" come to hold standing, until at Vatican Council II, the Church declares: "Nor shall divine providence deny the assistance necessary for salvation to those who, without any fault of theirs, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God, and who, not without grace, strive to lead a good life" (#16). Vatican Council II in its Declaration Nostra aetate addresses the non-Christian religions with respect and appreciation, affirming the goodness found in them. Since Vatican Council II, Catholic dialogists in particular are working out the implications of John Paul II's statement, in Redemptor hominis #6 that Christians should recognize "the Holy Spirit operating outside the visible confines of the Mystical Body of Christ." - Religious pluralism, Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_pluralism

Lionel:

The Catholic Church, unlike some Protestant denominations, affirms "developmental theology," understood to mean that the "Holy Spirit, in and through the evolving and often confused circumstances of concrete history, is gradually bringing the Church to an ever more mature understanding of the deposit of faith (the saving truths entrusted by Jesus Christ to the Apostles—these as such cannot be changed or added to). The Church comes to recognize baptism of desire quite early in its history. Later, the Church realizes that Romans 2:14–16, for example, allows for the salvation of non-Christians who do not have unobstructed exposure to Christian teachings: "When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires… They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts…^[25] Various forms of "implicit faith" come to hold standing, until at Vatican Council II, the Church declares: "Nor shall divine providence deny the assistance necessary for salvation to those who, without any fault of theirs, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God, and who, not without grace, strive to lead a good life" (#16). Vatican Council II in its Declaration Nostra aetate addresses the non-Christian religions with respect and appreciation, affirming the goodness found in them. Since Vatican Council II, Catholic dialogists in particular are working out the implications of John Paul II's statement, in Redemptor hominis #6 that Christians should recognize "the Holy Spirit operating outside the visible confines of the Mystical Body of Christ." - Religious pluralism, Wikipedia

"developmental theology," understood to mean that the "Holy Spirit, in and through the evolving and often confused circumstances of concrete history, is gradually bringing the Church to an ever more mature understanding of the deposit of faith (the saving truths entrusted by Jesus Christ to the Apostles—these as such cannot be changed or added to).

There cannot be ‘development theology’ by confusing what is invisible as being visible and then projecting alleged practical exceptions for the past ecclesiocentric ecclesiology of the Catholic Church.

The Church comes to recognize baptism of desire quite early in its history. Later, the Church realizes that Romans 2:14–16, for example, allows for the salvation of non-Christians who do not have unobstructed exposure to Christian teachings.

Even the references to the baptism of desire in early history were to hypothetical and speculative cases only. They are not objective cases. This is a given.

). Vatican Council II in its Declaration Nostra aetate addresses the non-Christian religions with respect and appreciation, affirming the goodness found in them. Since Vatican Council II, Catholic dialogists in particular are working out the implications of John Paul II's statement, in Redemptor hominis #6 that Christians should recognize "the Holy Spirit operating outside the visible confines of the Mystical Body of Christ."

Yes the Holy Spirit can act outside the visible confines of the Church (LG 8) and there are good things in other religions. However the religions are not paths to salvation (CDF, Notification on Fr. Jacques Dupuis sj, 2001).Other religions also have errors and superstition, Pope John Paul II tells us in Dominus Iesus.

We also cannot say that a particular will be saved or has been saved outside the visible boundaries of the Catholic Church where the true Church of Christ ‘subsists’ (LG 8).We cannot say that anyone in particular will be saved outside the Church with ‘elements of sanctification and truth in other religions’ (LG 8), good and holy things in other religions (NA 2), imperfect communion with the Church (UR 3) or just being men of goodwill (GS 22).- Lionel Andrades

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https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/salvation-and-the-church

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2023/04/two-versions-of-feeneyism-wikipedia.html

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APRIL 12, 2023

How can you have a Church with everyone interpreting Vatican Council II irrationally for political reasons?

How can you have a Church with everyone interpreting Vatican Council II irrationally for political reasons?

How can Bradley Eli and Church Militant TV interpret Vatican Council II irrationally for political reasons?

How can this be called 'magisterial'i.e inspired by the Holy Spirit ? How can the Holy Spirit make an objective mistake and also contradict the past Magisterium over the centuries?

How can they accept the 1949 Letter of the Holy Office (LOHO) to the Archbishop of Boston also interpreted with the common false premise, inference and non-traditional and heretical conclusion? It is unethical for Bradley Eli and Christine Niles who have academic degrees in theology, to continue to do so, for political –left reasons,even after being informed. – Lionel Andrades

APRIL 10, 2023

Bradley Eli chooses deception. No ‘expose’ of CMTV by Christine Niles

Bradley Eli chooses deception. No ‘expose’ of CMTV by Christine Niles

Bradley Eli and Church Militant TV (CMTV) have been saying that they follow the Magisterium. How can it be magisterial to interpret Church Documents irrationally and produce liberalism in the Church, which was not there before 1949?

They are not letting the people know that Vatican Council II can be interpreted rationally and the whole Church returns to Tradition immediately.

They themselves do not want to return to Tradition. They want to maintain good relations with the Left and the Vatican. This will not be possible if they affirm the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS) according to the 12^th to 16 th century Catholic Church.

So they will vaguely criticize Vatican Council II and not enter into theology. Since it will expose them as being heretics and schismatics. This is the result of the fake premise and inference.The whole Church is political and fallowing.

There is no ‘expose’ of this deception by Christine Niles nor is this ‘one of the lies and falsehoods’ Michael Voris wants ‘to trap’.

Upon exclusive salvation in the Church depends the proclamation of the Social Reign of Christ the King, traditional mission and the non separation of Church and State.So the Left don't want it.

CMTV has a specific problem which can be recognized in public.Since if LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, NA 2 GS 22 etc, in Vatican Council II, refer to hypothetical cases only, then they are traditionalist.They are conservative Catholics.

If Lumen Gentium 8 etc refer to physically visib le examples of salvation outside the Church in 1965-2023, then they are liberals. The de fide teachings on exclusive salvation, of the past, are obsolete.

There is no decision on this issue from Cardinal Luiz Ladaria sj and the popes all these years.Since they were political and so dishonest and deceptive. This was not Catholic.The present interpretation of Vatican Council II is not Catholic.They are choosing to use the fake premise to produce a non traditional conclusion.

The New Evangelisation of Pope Francis, Cardinal Tagle and Archbishop Rino Fisichella is Christocentric and not also Ecclesiocentric.The false premise blocks out the traditional ecclesiocentrism.It produces the political rupture with Tradition.Then it is possible for the liberals to have the New Ecumenism, New Theology, New Evangelisation, New Ecclesiology, New Canon Law etc. Even the traditionalists and sedevacantists follow the fake interpretation of Vatican Council II and not the rational option.They are not aware of the rational option.

Cardinal Ladaria has been promoting this error through the International Theological Commission, since the time of Pope John Paul II and Cardinal Ratzinger. He needs to announce that extra ecclesiam nulla salus today is the same as it was for the missionaries and Magisterium, of the 16th century.Then the bark of Peter rights itself.

CMTV should contact Cardinal Ladaria and ask him the right questions. Of course, this is only if CMTV wants to be Catholic and not politically correct on Vatican Council II. -Lionel Andrades

APRIL 9, 2023

Bradley Eli will say that he is following the Magisterium. I will say the same. I too am following the Magisterium

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2023/04/bradley-eli-will-say-that-he-is.html

APRIL 8, 2023

Bradley Eli at Church Militant TV needs to clarify his position
https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2023/04/bradley-eli-at-church-militant-tv-needs.html

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APRIL 9, 2023
Bradley Eli will say that he is following the Magisterium. I will say the same. I too am following the Magisterium.

Bradley Eli will say that he is following the Magisterium. I will say the same. I too am following the Magisterium.He means following the Magisterium with liberalism. I would say, I am following the Magisterium without his liberalism. I follow the orthodoxy of the Church which does not change and I do not reject Vatican Council II (rational).
He accepts Magisterial Documents but he interprets them irrationally to produce a non-traditional conclusion.
I also accept Magisterial Documents which I interpret rationally to produce a non-traditional conclusion.
He follows Pope Francis who chooses the New Theology created with the irrational premise and inference. I follow Pope John Paul II when he did not use the New Theology (Ecclesia di Eucharistia, Notification, Fr. Jacques Dupuis sj etc), and of course, the popes before the 1949 Letter of the Holy Office (LOHO) to the Archbishop of Boston relative to Fr. Leonard Feeney.
He accepts the second part of the 1949 LOHO which contradicts the first part. The second part uses the false premise.
I accept only the first part of the LOHO which supports traditional EENS and is not contradicted by the fake premise of the second part. Catholics are not obliged to follow the second part which is dishonest.
There can be two interpretations of the Catholic Church. One is rational and the other irrational. The conclusion depends upon how we interpret the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance, mentioned in the LOHO and in Vatican Council II (LG 14, LG 16).
Do we use the false premise of the second part of the LOHO or do we avoid it? This determines the conclusion.
This is why Bradley Eli and my interpretation of Vatican Council II etc is different.  -Lionel Andrades
    FIRST PART

LETTER OF THE HOLY OFFICE
From the Headquarters of the Holy Office, Aug. 8, 1949.
Your Excellency:
This Supreme Sacred Congregation has followed very attentively the rise and the course of the grave controversy stirred up by certain associates of "St. Benedict Center" and "Boston College" in regard to the interpretation of that axiom: "Outside the Church there is no salvation."
After having examined all the documents that are necessary or useful in this matter, among them information from your Chancery, as well as appeals and reports in which the associates of "St. Benedict Center" explain their opinions and complaints, and also many other documents pertinent to the controversy, officially collected, the same Sacred Congregation is convinced that the unfortunate controversy arose from the fact that the axiom, "outside the Church there is no salvation," was not correctly understood and weighed, and that the same controversy was rendered more bitter by serious disturbance of discipline arising from the fact that some of the associates of the institutions mentioned above refused reverence and obedience to legitimate authorities.
Accordingly, the Most Eminent and Most Reverend Cardinals of this Supreme Congregation, in a plenary session held on Wednesday, July 27, 1949, decreed, and the august Pontiff in an audience on the following Thursday, July 28, 1949, deigned to give his approval, that the following explanations pertinent to the doctrine, and also that invitations and exhortations relevant to discipline be given:
We are bound by divine and Catholic faith to believe all those things which are contained in the word of God, whether it be Scripture or Tradition, and are proposed by the Church to be believed as divinely revealed, not only through solemn judgment but also through the ordinary and universal teaching office (<Denzinger>, n. 1792).
Now, among those things which the Church has always preached and will never cease to preach is contained also that infallible statement by which we are taught that there is no salvation outside the Church.
However, this dogma must be understood in that sense in which the Church herself understands it. For, it was not to private judgments that Our Savior gave for explanation those things that are contained in the deposit of faith, but to the teaching authority of the Church.
Now, in the first place, the Church teaches that in this matter there is question of a most strict command of Jesus Christ. For He explicitly enjoined on His apostles to teach all nations to observe all things whatsoever He Himself had commanded (Matt. 28: 19-20).
Now, among the commandments of Christ, that one holds not the least place by which we are commanded to be incorporated by baptism into the Mystical Body of Christ, which is the Church, and to remain united to Christ and to His Vicar, through whom He Himself in a visible manner governs the Church on earth.
Therefore, no one will be saved who, knowing the Church to have been divinely established by Christ, nevertheless refuses to submit to the Church or withholds obedience from the Roman Pontiff, the Vicar of Christ on earth.
Not only did the Savior command that all nations should enter the Church, but He also decreed the Church to be a means of salvation without which no one can enter the kingdom of eternal glory.
In His infinite mercy God has willed that the effects, necessary for one to be saved, of those helps to salvation which are directed toward man's final end, not by intrinsic necessity, but only by divine institution, can also be obtained in certain circumstances when those helps are used only in desire and longing. This we see clearly stated in the Sacred Council of Trent, both in reference to the sacrament of regeneration and in reference to the sacrament of penance (<Denzinger>, nn. 797, 807).

    SECOND PART
The same in its own degree must be asserted of the Church, in as far as she is the general help to salvation. Therefore, that one may obtain eternal salvation, it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member, but it is necessary that at least he be united to her by desire and longing.
(Lionel: 1. The Letter here contradicts the Fourth Lateran Council (1215) which says everyone needs to be a member of the Catholic Church for salvation. This Council did not mention any exceptions.
2. The Letter assumes that there are visible and known cases of the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance. There are no such cases in our reality. This is a false premise.
3.The Letter concludes that visible and known cases of the BOD and I.I are objective examples of salvation and so contradict the Fourth Lateran Council on EENS. It also contradicts EENS of the St. Benedict Center and Fr. Leonard Feeney, is the irrational and non traditional conclusion.
4. With visible cases of BOD and I.I the Nicene Creed says" We believe in three or more known baptisms for the forgiveness of sins and they exclude the baptism of water and so are exceptions for Feeneyite EENS and the Fourth Lateran Council"
4. The Apostles Creed which was recited today at Mass in Italian now says that we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, which now teaches that outside the Church there is salvation but in the past taught outside the Church there was no known salvation. So the Magisterium has produced a new revelation with the false premise in the 1949 LOHO and Vatican Council II (1965).
5.The Athanasius Creed and the Syllabus of Errors which say that all need to be members of the Catholic Church for salvation are now obsolete with the 'exceptions' of this Letter.
6.In the Catechism of Pope Pius X, being saved in invincible ignorance (29Q) refers to a visible example of salvation outside the Church and so contradicts 24Q and 27 Q which says other religions are not paths to salvation and outside the Church there is no salvation. This confusion is created with the false premise also in other catechisms.-L.A
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However, this desire need not always be explicit, as it is in catechumens; but when a person is involved in invincible ignorance God accepts also an implicit desire, so called because it is included in that good disposition of soul whereby a person wishes his will to be conformed to the will of God.
Lionel: What is the point in mentioning all this ? An implicit desire cannot be an objective exception for the dogma EENS in 1949.
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These things are clearly taught in that dogmatic letter which was issued by the Sovereign Pontiff, Pope Pius XII, on June 29, 1943, <On the Mystical Body of Jesus Christ> (AAS, Vol. 35, an. 1943, p. 193 ff.). For in this letter the Sovereign Pontiff clearly distinguishes between those who are actually incorporated into the Church as members, and those who are united to the Church only by desire.
Discussing the members of which the Mystical Body is-composed here on earth, the same august Pontiff says: "Actually only those are to be included as members of the Church who have been baptized and profess the true faith, and who have not been so unfortunate as to separate themselves from the unity of the Body, or been excluded by legitimate authority for grave faults committed."
Toward the end of this same encyclical letter, when most affectionately inviting to unity those who do not belong to the body of the Catholic Church, he mentions those who "are related to the Mystical Body of the Redeemer by a certain unconscious yearning and desire," and these he by no means excludes from eternal salvation, but on the other hand states that they are in a condition "in which they cannot be sure of their salvation" since "they still remain deprived of those many heavenly gifts and helps which can only be enjoyed in the Catholic Church" (AAS, 1. c., p. 243). With these wise words he reproves both those who exclude from eternal salvation all united to the Church only by implicit desire, and those who falsely assert that men can be saved equally well in every religion (cf. Pope Pius IX, Allocution, <Singulari quadam>, in <Denzinger>, n. 1641 ff.; also Pope Pius IX in the encyclical letter, <Quanto conficiamur moerore>, in <Denzinger>, n. 1677).
But it must not be thought that any kind of desire of entering the Church suffices that one may be saved. It is necessary that the desire by which one is related to the Church be animated by perfect charity. Nor can an implicit desire produce its effect, unless a person has supernatural faith: "For he who comes to God must believe that God exists and is a rewarder of those who seek Him" (Heb. 11:6). The Council of Trent declares (Session VI, chap. 8): "Faith is the beginning of man's salvation, the foundation and root of all justification, without which it is impossible to please God and attain to the fellowship of His children" (Denzinger, n. 801).
From what has been said it is evident that those things which are proposed in the periodical <From the Housetops>, fascicle 3, as the genuine teaching of the Catholic Church are far from being such and are very harmful both to those within the Church and those without.
From these declarations which pertain to doctrine, certain conclusions follow which regard discipline and conduct, and which cannot be unknown to those who vigorously defend the necessity by which all are bound' of belonging to the true Church and of submitting to the authority of the Roman Pontiff and of the Bishops "whom the Holy Ghost has placed . . . to rule the Church" (Acts 20:28).
Hence, one cannot understand how the St. Benedict Center can consistently claim to be a Catholic school and wish to be accounted such, and yet not conform to the prescriptions of canons 1381 and 1382 of the Code of Canon Law, and continue to exist as a source of discord and rebellion against ecclesiastical authority and as a source of the disturbance of many consciences.
Lionel: The ecclesiastical authority was saying unknown and invisible cases of the BOD and I.I were objective exceptions for the Fourth Lateran Council on EENS.
___________________
Furthermore, it is beyond understanding how a member of a religious Institute, namely Father Feeney, presents himself as a "Defender of the Faith," and at the same time does not hesitate to attack the catechetical instruction proposed by lawful authorities, and has not even feared to incur grave sanctions threatened by the sacred canons because of his serious violations of his duties as a religious, a priest, and an ordinary member of the Church.
Lionel: Catechetical instruction by the lawful authorities were using a false premise to change the interpretation of the Councils, Creeds and Catechisms. This was dishonest.
_______________________
Finally, it is in no wise to be tolerated that certain Catholics shall claim for themselves the right to publish a periodical, for the purpose of spreading theological doctrines, without the permission of competent Church authority, called the "<imprimatur,>" which is prescribed by the sacred canons.
Lionel : The competent Church authority was rejecting the traditional interpretation of the Fourth Lateran Council and the Council of Florence on EENS by using the irrational premise and inference to produce a heretical and schismatic conclusion.
____________________
Therefore, let them who in grave peril are ranged against the Church seriously bear in mind that after "Rome has spoken" they cannot be excused even by reasons of good faith. Certainly, their bond and duty of obedience toward the Church is much graver than that of those who as yet are related to the Church "only by an unconscious desire." Let them realize that they are children of the Church, lovingly nourished by her with the milk of doctrine and the sacraments, and hence, having heard the clear voice of their Mother, they cannot be excused from culpable ignorance, and therefore to them apply without any restriction that principle: submission to the Catholic Church and to the Sovereign Pontiff is required as necessary for salvation.
Lionel: Pope Pius XII was contradicting Pope Honorious III and St. Dominic Guzman at the times of the Fourth Lateran Council when EENS was defined.Also when the saints and popes over the centuries mentioned BOD and I.I , they were always referring to hypothetical cases.This is a given. BOD and I.I can only be hypothetical and spectulative for us humans. Pope Pius XII made a mistake in this Letter.-Lionel Andrades
https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/letter-to-the-archbishop-of-boston-2076

APRIL 8, 2023
Bradley Eli at Church Militant TV needs to clarify his position
Church Militant TV has said that the SSPX is in schism. I go for the SSPX Latin Mass in Rome. I also go for Mass in Italian on Sundays. I am not in schism. I accept Vatican Council II and Pope Francis is the pope for me. I accept the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla  salus (EENS) according to the Fourth Lateran Council (1215) and I accept and do not reject hypothetical cases of the baptism of desire, baptism of blood and invincible ignorance. For me Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church has a continuity with the Council of Florence 1442 on the teaching, outside the Church there is no salvation.
Bradley Eli M.Div.,Ma.Th.,at Church Militant TV needs to clarify his position. For me he re-interprets Vatican Council II irrationally, creating alleged exceptions for the dogma EENS according the Fourth Lateran Council etc. So he has produced EENS with exceptions. With visible cases of BOD, BOB and I.I he changes the interpretation of the Nicene Creed and outright makes the Athanasius Creed obsolete. This is first class heresy.
It is schism with pre-1949 popes on the Creeds, Councils and Catechisms. This is the stuff of excommunication over the centuries.- Lionel Andrades

SALVATION AND THE CHURCH
by Bradley Eli M.Div., Ma.Th.  • ChurchMilitant.com • August 31, 2020

LUKE 13:23: 'LORD, ARE THEY FEW THAT ARE SAVED?'

The Catholic Church infallibly teaches the truth that "Outside the Church, there is no salvation." The Church isn't saying here that only Catholics go to Heaven but that all graces needed for salvation originate in Christ and pass through His Mystical Body, the Church.
Lionel: The Catholic Church is saying here that there are only Catholics in Heaven. If there are non Catholics who are going to Heaven, in Heaven they will only be Catholic. The Church is saying this when Magisterial Documents( Councils, Creeds and Catechisms) are interpreted rationally and not irrationally. Bradley Eli interprets Vatican Council II irrationally.
_____________________
Section 846 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church affirms that this dogma does mean "All salvation comes from Christ the head through the Church, which is His body."

Lionel: Yes all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church, which is His Body and all need to enter the Catholic Church with faith and the baptism of water for salvaton ( Ad Gentes 7, Lumen Gentium 14, Catechism of the Catholic Church 845, 846, Fourth Lateran Council (1215) etc). When Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church are interpreted rationally there is no contradiction. There is no rupture with the Fourth Council of Florence (1215) on the strict interpretation of EENS, with no known exceptions.
____________________
Those unable to know this truth have what's called invincible ignorance. A little Jewish girl who dies at the age of 6 might be such a person.
Lionel : Yes there could be someone in invincible ignorance and if the person is to be saved this case would only be known to God. For us humans they are theoretical and speculative. We cannot point out any person and say that this or that person will go to Heaven even if he is in invincible ignorance. We cannot meet or see someone saved in invincible ignorance. They are invisible in our reality. So they are not practical exceptions for the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus ( Council of Florence 1442).
_______________________

Of these, Pope Pius IX in his 1863 encyclical, Quanto Conficiamur Moerore, wrote:
It is known to Us and to you that they who labor in invincible ignorance of our most holy religion and who, zealously keeping the natural law and its precepts engraved in the hearts of all by God, and being ready to obey God, live an honest and upright life, can, by the operating power of divine light and grace, attain eternal life, since God ... will by no means suffer anyone to be punished with eternal torment who has not the guilt of deliberate sin.
Lionel: Yes and we cannot project this case of invincible ignorance as an exception for the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS). It was known to Pope Pius IX that these are theoretical cases and not objective exceptions for the dogma EENS.That these are hypothetical cases is common sense. It was known through the centuries.
It was only in 1949 in the Letter of the Holy Office (CDF) that a mistake was made. It was assumed that invincible ignorance was a visible case. Bradley Eli makes this mistake. This is the common formation- error in the Catholic seminaries and universities all over the world.
___________________________
As cited in Denzinger §1677, Pius IX adds:
But, the Catholic dogma that no one can be saved outside the Catholic Church is well known; and also that those who are obstinate toward the authority and definitions of the same Church, and who persistently separate themselves from the unity of the Church, and from the Roman Pontiff, the successor of Peter, to whom "the guardianship of the vine has been entrusted by the Savior," cannot obtain eternal salvation.

Lionel : The 1949 Letter of the Holy Office was placed in the Denzinger by the liberals. It was put there along with its objective mistake. Catholics are not obligated to follow the second part of the 1949 LOHO which contradicts the first part which affirmed traditional EENS. It does this with a fake premise.
The 1949 LOHO is not Magisterial, even though it was accepted by Rahner, Ratzinger, Kung and Congar, since the Holy Spirit cannot make an objective mistake. With this objective mistake, confusing what is invisible as being visible, unknown as being known, alleged practical exceptions were created for the Magisterial interpretation of EENS over the centuries.
_______________________________
Vatican II repeats this admonition in Lumen Gentium §14: "Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved. ... Not only shall they not be saved but they will be the more severely judged."

Lionel :  Yes whoever knows and does not enter is oriented to Hell. But it does not mean that we know of any one in particular who will go to Heaven outside the Church, with invincible ignorance. All people in general need Catholic faith and the baptism of water for salvation (AG 7). All. Those who know and those who do not know, need to accept Jesus in only the Catholic Church for salvation ( to avoid Hell ). Lumen Gentium 14 refers to those ‘who know’ since the Council Fathers, the liberals, interpreted 'being saved in invincible ignorance', irrationally, like the 1949 LOHO. They assumed that the baptism of desire (BOD) and being saved in invincible ignorance (I.I) referred to 'known and visible non Catholics' in 1949-1965 who were saved outside the Catholic Church, without faith and the baptism of water. But the Councils from the 12^th to the 16^th century are clear. All need to be members of the Church for salvation. All. The word all is also used in Ad Gentes 7. It says all need faith and the baptism of water, for salvation (AG 7, Vatican Council II) The BOD and I.I are not exceptions or relevant for AG 7 or the dogma EENS.
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Religious pluralism (Wikipedia)
The Catholic Church, unlike some Protestant denominations, affirms "developmental theology," understood to mean that the "Holy Spirit, in and through the evolving and often confused circumstances of concrete history, is gradually bringing the Church to an ever more mature understanding of the deposit of faith (the saving truths entrusted by Jesus Christ to the Apostles—these as such cannot be changed or added to). The Church comes to recognize baptism of desire quite early in its history. Later, the Church realizes that Romans 2:14–16, for example, allows for the salvation of non-Christians who do not have unobstructed exposure to Christian teachings: "When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires… They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts…^[25] Various forms of "implicit faith" come to hold standing, until at Vatican Council II, the Church declares: "Nor shall divine providence deny the assistance necessary for salvation to those who, without any fault of theirs, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God, and who, not without grace, strive to lead a good life" (#16). Vatican Council II in its Declaration Nostra aetate addresses the non-Christian religions with respect and appreciation, affirming the goodness found in them. Since Vatican Council II, Catholic dialogists in particular are working out the implications of John Paul II's statement, in Redemptor hominis #6 that Christians should recognize "the Holy Spirit operating outside the visible confines of the Mystical Body of Christ." - Religious pluralism, Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_pluralism
Lionel:
The Catholic Church, unlike some Protestant denominations, affirms "developmental theology," understood to mean that the "Holy Spirit, in and through the evolving and often confused circumstances of concrete history, is gradually bringing the Church to an ever more mature understanding of the deposit of faith (the saving truths entrusted by Jesus Christ to the Apostles—these as such cannot be changed or added to). The Church comes to recognize baptism of desire quite early in its history. Later, the Church realizes that Romans 2:14–16, for example, allows for the salvation of non-Christians who do not have unobstructed exposure to Christian teachings: "When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires… They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts…^[25] Various forms of "implicit faith" come to hold standing, until at Vatican Council II, the Church declares: "Nor shall divine providence deny the assistance necessary for salvation to those who, without any fault of theirs, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God, and who, not without grace, strive to lead a good life" (#16). Vatican Council II in its Declaration Nostra aetate addresses the non-Christian religions with respect and appreciation, affirming the goodness found in them. Since Vatican Council II, Catholic dialogists in particular are working out the implications of John Paul II's statement, in Redemptor hominis #6 that Christians should recognize "the Holy Spirit operating outside the visible confines of the Mystical Body of Christ." - Religious pluralism, Wikipedia

"developmental theology," understood to mean that the "Holy Spirit, in and through the evolving and often confused circumstances of concrete history, is gradually bringing the Church to an ever more mature understanding of the deposit of faith (the saving truths entrusted by Jesus Christ to the Apostles—these as such cannot be changed or added to).
There cannot be ‘development theology’ by confusing what is invisible as being visible and then projecting alleged practical exceptions for the past ecclesiocentric ecclesiology of the Catholic Church.
The Church comes to recognize baptism of desire quite early in its history. Later, the Church realizes that Romans 2:14–16, for example, allows for the salvation of non-Christians who do not have unobstructed exposure to Christian teachings.
Even the references to the baptism of desire in early history were to hypothetical and speculative cases only. They are not objective cases. This is a given.
). Vatican Council II in its Declaration Nostra aetate addresses the non-Christian religions with respect and appreciation, affirming the goodness found in them. Since Vatican Council II, Catholic dialogists in particular are working out the implications of John Paul II's statement, in Redemptor hominis #6 that Christians should recognize "the Holy Spirit operating outside the visible confines of the Mystical Body of Christ."
Yes the Holy Spirit can act outside the visible confines of the Church (LG 8) and there are good things in other religions. However the religions are not paths to salvation (CDF, Notification on Fr. Jacques Dupuis sj, 2001).Other religions also have errors and superstition, Pope John Paul II tells us in Dominus Iesus.
We also cannot say that a particular will be saved or has been saved outside the visible boundaries of the Catholic Church where the true Church of Christ ‘subsists’ (LG 8).We cannot say that anyone in particular will be saved outside the Church with ‘elements of sanctification and truth in other religions’ (LG 8), good and holy things in other religions (NA 2), imperfect communion with the Church (UR 3) or just being men of goodwill (GS 22).- Lionel Andrades
____________________________

https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/salvation-and-the-church

APRIL 8, 2023
Two versions of Feeneyism : Wikipedia needs to be updated
Leonard Edward Feeney (February 18, 1897 – January 30, 1978) was an American Jesuit priest, poet, lyricist, and essayist.
He articulated a strict interpretation of the Roman Catholic doctrine extra Ecclesiam nulla salus ("outside the Church there is no salvation"). He took the position that baptism of blood and baptism of desire are unavailing and that therefore no non-Catholics will be saved - Wikipedia
Lionel :
unavailing : Fr. Leonard Feeney means there are no known and visible cases of the baptism of desire to contradict the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

_______________________

Wikipedia
Feeneyism is a Christian doctrine, associated with Leonard Feeney, which advocates an interpretation of the dogma extra Ecclesiam nulla salus ("outside the Church there is no salvation") which is that only Catholics can go to heaven and that only those baptised with water can go to heaven. Feeneyism opposes the doctrines of baptism of desire and baptism of blood as well as the view that non-Catholics can go to heaven.
Feeneyism is considered a heresy by the Catholic Church; some Catholics refer to Feeneyism as the Boston heresy. - Wikipedia

Lionel :
Feeneyism is a Catholic doctrine, associated with Leonard Feeney and the Fourth Lateran Council (12159 and the Council of Florence (1442) which defined extra ecclesiam nulla salus as a dogma of the Catholic Church. These Councils advocate an interpretation of the dogma extra Ecclesiam nulla salus ("outside the Church there is no salvation") which is that only Catholics can go to heaven and that only those baptised with water can go to heaven. If a non Catholic goes to Heaven he will be a Catholic there and not a non Catholic.
Feeneyism does not oppose the doctrines of baptism of desire and baptism of blood but considres them specualtive and hypothetical and known only to God, if they exist . So they do not contradict the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus , which says that in Heaven there are only Catholics.
Feeneyism is considered a heresy by the the Jewish Left and their supporters in the Catholic Church who refer to to Feeneyism as the Boston heresy. Other Catholics refer to the Boston Heresy as the heresy of Pope Pius XII, Cardinal Richard Cushing and the Jesuits. They assumed unknown and invisible cases of the baptism of desire etc were visible and known exceptions for EENS according the the Church Councils in the Middle Ages.- L.ionel Andrades

____________________________

CONDEMNATION OF FEENEYISM[EDIT]
In a 1949 letter to Cardinal Cushing, Archbishop of Boston, the Holy Office condemned Feeney's teaching that only those formally baptized in the Catholic Church can be saved. The Holy Office affirmed that those baptized by their desire can be saved. This letter was sent by Cardinal Francesco Marchetti Selvaggiani to Cardinal Cushing. This letter stated among other things:^[9]^[10]
The same in its own degree must be asserted of the Church, in as far as She is the general help to salvation. Therefore, that one may obtain eternal salvation, it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member, but it is necessary that at least he be united to Her by desire and longing. However, this desire need not always be explicit, as it is in catechumens; but when a person is involved in invincible ignorance God accepts also an implicit desire, so called because it is included in that good disposition of soul whereby a person wishes his will to be conformed to the will of God. These things are clearly taught in that dogmatic letter which was issued by the Sovereign Pontiff, Pope Pius XII, on June 29, 1943, On the Mystical Body of Jesus Christ (AAS, Vol. 35, an. 1943, p. 193 ff.). For in this letter the Sovereign Pontiff clearly distinguishes between those who are actually incorporated into the Church as members, and those who are united to the Church only by desire.— Letter of the Holy Office
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feeneyism

Lionel :

Therefore, that one may obtain eternal salvation, it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member
The dogma EENS of the Church Councils says that one needs to be a member of the Catholic Church for salvation and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith is here saying in this Letter that one does not have to be a member. This is heresy. It is also schism with the Magisterium over the centuries.
The Letter also confuses invisible cases of the BOD, BOB and I.I as visible exceptions for the strict interpretation of EENS, of the Church Councils and Fr. Leonard Feeney. This is irrational. It is also unethical and dishonest. This is a scandal.
Vatican Council II (Wikipedia)
Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution Lumen gentium, 14: "They could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it, or to remain in it."
Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution Lumen gentium, 16: "Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things, and as Saviour wills that all men be saved. Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience. Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life."
The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that the phrase, "Outside the Church there is no salvation", means, if put in positive terms, that "all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body", and it "is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church".^[44]
At the same time, it adds: "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."
The Church has also declared that "she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter", and that "those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways." - Wikipedia
Lionel :
Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution Lumen Gentium, 14: "They could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it, or to remain in it."
Those who are in invincible ignorance and who are saved are known only to God. So these are not practical exceptions for the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS). We must not confuse what is invisible as being visible.
Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution Lumen Gentium, 16: "Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things, and as Saviour wills that all men be saved. Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience. Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life."
Lionel:
Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience.
Yes hypothetically and it will include Catholic faith and baptism of water since this the teaching of the Councils, Catechisms and Creeds.
Hypothetical cases must not be projected as being objective exceptions for the dogma EENS in 1949-2023.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that the phrase, "Outside the Church there is no salvation", means, if put in positive terms, that "all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body", and it "is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church".
Lionel : Yes all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body and all need to enter the Church with faith and baptism to avoid Hell ( for salvation). There are no physically visible exceptions (Council of Florence etc). Those who through no fault of their own who do not know Christ and His Church also need to enter the Church as members to be saved from Hell. If anyone is saved in invincible ignorance, he or she would only be known to God. In Heaven he or she would be a Catholic. God would provide a preacher to teach them the faith and baptise them, as St. Thomas Aquinas said. The norm for salvation is faith and baptism (AG 7) and not invincible ignorance(LG 14 etc).There are not 'explicit' and 'literal' cases of being saved in invincible ignorance or the baptism of desire.
_____________
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus (Wikipedia)
Strict interpretation[edit]
See also: Feeneyism
Some sedevacantists called Feeneyists (such as the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary of New Hampshire) believe that only baptized Catholics can be saved. They reject of concept of baptism by desire and baptism of blood, and say that only a properly performed rite with the use of water and the requisite words is sufficient

Lionel : The Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary in New Hampshire, USA are not sedevacantists. They accept Pope Francis as the pope.They believe that only baptised Catholics who live the Catholic Faith and die without mortal sins on their soul can be saved since this is the teaching of the Catholic Church. This is the teaching of the Church in Magisterial Documents interpreted rationally.
This is the teaching of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215) and the Council of Florence (1442) which did not mention any exceptions. The two Councils are not contradicted by hypothetical and unknown cases of the baptism of desire (BOD), baptism of blood(BOB) and being saved in invincible ignorance(I.I).
The two Councils and the BOD, BOB and I.I are interpreted rationally by the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary. They do not confuse what is invisible as being visible and then project false exceptions for the dogma EENS. So they do not reject BOD, BOB and I.I which can only be hypothetical.They do not project them as exceptions for Feeneyite EENS.- Lionel Andrades

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2023/04/two-versions-of-feeneyism-wikipedia.html

APRIL 8, 2023

How can the Diocese of Manchester in New Hampshire, USA and the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith, Vatican legally call themselves Catholic when they violate Canon Law and secular law?
https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2023/04/how-can-diocese-of-manchester-in-new.htmlFacebook

eucharistandmission

Thursday, April 13, 2023

Church Militant TV does not interpret Vatican Council II rationally to avoid losing their tax exempt status and be called a non- Catholic organisation

Vatican rejects Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary appeal

APRIL 12, 2023

Bradley Eli and the Vatican official mean the SSPX has to interpret and accept Vatican Council II irrational and not rational.

VATICAN OFFICIAL: SSPX MUST SIGN DOCTRINAL DECLARATION

ABP. POZZO: THE BALL'S IN THEIR COURT

APRIL 12, 2023

Bishop Athanasius Schneider chooses heresy and schism to remain a bishop in the Catholic Church

APRIL 10, 2023

What if there is no development of doctrine, no development of EENS in Vatican Council II? What if Bishop Athanasius Schneider is wrong? What if the new theology is based on a mistake in perception?What if Pope Benedict was wrong? When will Bishop Athansius Schneider discuss this? (April 26,2016)

TUESDAY, APRIL 26, 2016

What if?

Bishop Athanasius Schneider misses the bus again

APRIL 10, 2023

APRIL 2, 2023

I have said it before. Everyone agrees with me

APRIL 12, 2023

Feeneyism says invisible cases are invisible .The baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance are physically invisible for us. So they are not exceptions for the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus

APRIL 8, 2023

Two versions of Feeneyism : Wikipedia needs to be updated

CONDEMNATION OF FEENEYISM[EDIT]

SALVATION AND THE CHURCH

LUKE 13:23: 'LORD, ARE THEY FEW THAT ARE SAVED?'

APRIL 12, 2023

How can you have a Church with everyone interpreting Vatican Council II irrationally for political reasons?

APRIL 10, 2023

Bradley Eli chooses deception. No ‘expose’ of CMTV by Christine Niles

APRIL 9, 2023

Bradley Eli will say that he is following the Magisterium. I will say the same. I too am following the Magisterium

APRIL 8, 2023

Bradley Eli at Church Militant TV needs to clarify his position

APRIL 9, 2023

Bradley Eli will say that he is following the Magisterium. I will say the same. I too am following the Magisterium.

APRIL 8, 2023

Bradley Eli at Church Militant TV needs to clarify his position

SALVATION AND THE CHURCH

LUKE 13:23: 'LORD, ARE THEY FEW THAT ARE SAVED?'

APRIL 8, 2023

Two versions of Feeneyism : Wikipedia needs to be updated

CONDEMNATION OF FEENEYISM[EDIT]

APRIL 8, 2023

How can the Diocese of Manchester in New Hampshire, USA and the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith, Vatican legally call themselves Catholic when they violate Canon Law and secular law?

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