The Congregation of Mary Immaculate Queen (CMRI) and other sedevacantists could really issue a provisional statement saying they could accept a Vatican Council II which indicates in its text that all non Catholics need to convert into the Catholic Church for salvation,to avoid Hell.(Ad Gentes 7 etc). Some of them could appeal to the Vatican to open a dialogue on Vatican Council II which would acknowledge their interpretation of the Council and allow them to reject the Jewish Left version.
The Vatican Curia could also acknowledge that the sedevacantists do not reject Vatican Council II itself but only an interpretation available in the media owned by Talmud Jews.
The CMRI could even cite text from Vatican Council II in accord with the thrice defined dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
The CMRI could welcome talks with the Vatican and ask for interlocutors who would not claim that cases of those saved in invincible ignorance (LG 16),contradict the dogma, when they personally do not know any such case.
Even if there are many issues to be discussed the CMRI could work towards a discussion, and hopefully an agreement, on the salvation dogma, other religions and Vatican Council II.
If the Vatican is willing to accept that there are two versions of Vatican Council II in vogue, they could open communication with Hutton Gibson and other sedevacantists to bring them back into the Church and let them live Vatican Council II as a continuation of Tradition.
Even if talks fail the CMRI could say ‘We choose to remain sedevacantists (unfortunately) even though we accept Vatican Council II according to Tradition and reject the Rabbi David Rosen/Chief Rabbinate interpretation for Catholics’.
Unfortunately on the CMRI website they have used the non traditional interpretation of Vatican Council II. For the Rabbis LG 16 (invincible ignorance) could be the ordinary means of salvation, for the CMRI Ad Gentes 7 and Lumen Gentium 14. AG 7 indicates all Jews and Muslims need to convert into the Church with Catholic Faith and the baptism of water for salvation. This is the very teaching explained by the CMRI on its website.
The CMRI website says:
NON-CHRISTIAN RELIGIONS
The attitude of the Catholic Church towards pagans, Mohammedans and Jews has always been clear — there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church.
Lionel:
This is also the teaching of Vatican Council II (AG 7, LG 14).
CMRI
Even supposing a person was invincibly ignorant of the true Church, he must still follow the natural law to be saved (implicit baptism of desire).
Lionel:
We do not know any such case in reality. In general the ordinary means is still the baptism of water and Catholic Faith for all people to go to Heaven (Vatican Council II).
CMRI
It is evident, according to Catholic theology, that these false and immoral religions are opposed to the natural law. The Fathers of the Church, as well as many true Popes, have been quite strong in their condemnation of these religions, and especially of Mohammedanism and Judaism, which have persistently attacked the Catholic Church throughout history. The Council Fathers of Vatican II, however, have not only implied the salvation of heretics and schismatics, but also praised these other false religions in their “Declaration on the Relationship of the Church to Non-Christian Religions.”
Lionel:
The Council Fathers have praised the good and holy things in these religions which could be a means to entering the Church. The Council Fathers acknowledge that these religions are not paths to salvation and that there members need to convert to avoid Hell. (AG 7, LG 14).
CMRI
The opening paragraph of this declaration strongly suggests that, yes, salvation may be found outside of the true fold. It states:
“One also in their final goal: God. His providence, His manifestations of goodness, and His saving designs extend to all men against the day when the elect will be united in that Holy City ablaze with the splendor of God, where the nations will walk in His light.” The meaning of this last phrase does not at all agree with a similar phrase found in Sacred Scripture.
Lionel:
The Church Fathers and the popes have mentioned the possibility, known to only to God, of a non Catholic being saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire and they knew that this did not contradict the ’rigorist interpretation’ of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
The Church Fathers and the popes have mentioned the possibility, known to only to God, of a non Catholic being saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire and they knew that this did not contradict the ’rigorist interpretation’ of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
God may choose, as St. Thomas Aquinas says, to provide these exceptional cases with a preacher or someone to baptize them with water and teach them the Faith. The saints tell us of people who have returned from the dead only to be baptized with water.
So Vatican Council II the “Declaration on the Relationship of the Church to Non-Christian Religions” is in accord with Tradition. The elect are those who have entered Heaven through the Catholic Church, with Catholic Faith and the baptism of water in the manner in which God has provided this grace.
In general one has to be a visible member of the Church for salvation however there can also be certain cases, invisible to us humans, who are made visible members of the Catholic Church and are known only to God.
The CMRI could discover how Vatican Council II indicates the need for traditional Mission to all non Catholics.
-Lionel Andrades
The Decrees of Vatican II Compared with Past Church Teachings (CMRI)
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