VESTED IN PURPLE AT THE BASILICA OF ST.MARY MAJORS AND TEACHING...

I spoke to a religious vested in purple at the Basilica of St.Mary Majors, Rome a few weeks back. It was early morning there were a few people there.He was praying the rosary and walking along a side aisle for quite sometime.

I told him I believe that all Muslims and other non Catholics are oriented to Hell and there are no known exceptions .I believe this is the teaching of the Church.I cited Ad Gentes 7 and the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

I mentioned that all non Catholic have Original Sin and they do not have Catholic Faith and the baptism of water which is the ordinary means of salvation.

I asked him why do not cardinals, bishops, priests and nuns teach that we can affirm AG 7 and that LG 16 is not in contradiction ? They could say all need Catholic Faith and the baptism of water (AG 7) for salvation (to avoid Hell). We do not know any non Catholic in 2012 saved in invincible ignorance or a good conscience. Neither do we know any such case in the previous years.

They could teach, he included, that there is exclusive salvation in only the Catholic Church and there could be the possibility of someone saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire and this would be known only to God.

In other words defacto, visibly, formally every one needs to be a defacto, (explicit) member of the Catholic Church and dejure,in principle a non Catholic could be saved in invincible ignorance etc and it would be unknown to us in personal cases.

The religious agreed that Lumen Gentium 16 does not contradict AG 7 since we do not know any one saved in the present time.

He said it was true that everyone needed the baptism of water for salvation and there were no known exceptions.

The after affirming these teachings of the Catholic Church he seemed to contradict it all.

He said God is merciful and so we cannot say that all Muslims and other non Catholics are oriented to Hell.

Even though Muslims have Original Sin on their soul not wiped out with the baptism of water, they can be saved. If they could be saved in general or in particular cases it was not clear.

Then he indicated that even though they have Original Sin there were among them those who are good and who lead a good life. So they can be saved.

People know what is right and wrong deep within the heart he mentioned,and so non Catholics have the truth. He suggested that they can be saved in general or particular, it was not specified.

The he said that extra ecclesiam nulla salus was not a defined dogma but just an aphorism a saying.

Salvation is open to all he said, all can be saved.He suggested that God is merciful implying all or most non Catholics will be saved. At the same time, he agreed, that salvation is open only to all who respond.

He was saying yes, every one needs the baptism of water for salvation and yes some may not need it for salvation in the present time.

It would make sense if he said yes, in principle every one needs the baptism of water for salvation and there could be exceptions.While defacto ( in reality, in fact) every one needs the baptism of water for salvation and there are no known exceptions.
-Lionel Andrades