we became personally close in the years in which you were a member of the International Theological Commission, of which I (as prefect of the CDF) was president. We were all deeply impressed by your comprehensive knowledge of the whole history of dogma and theology, which your interventions always showed, and which was the foundation of your ever-reliable judgment. In everything we sensed that your theology was not just academic learning, but that it was and is – as the essence of theology demands – a thinking-with the word of the Faith, thinking-with the “we” of the Church as the communal subject of the Faith. You took care to make the work of the International Theological Commission better known in Germany, and in all those years you continually published important contributions on the pressing theological questions of the day.- For the record: the Pope's praise for Bishop Gerhard Müller in 2007 -Rorate Caeli (from the Sancrucensis blog) July10,2012
Now see the errors of the International Theological Commission (ITC).
International Theological Commission (ITC)
10. Exclusivist ecclesiocentrism—the fruit of a specific theological system or of a mistaken understanding of the phrase extra ecclesiam nulla salus—is no longer defended by Catholic theologians after the clear statements of Pius XII and Vatican Council II on the possibility of salvation for those who do not belong visibly to the Church (cf, e.g., LG 16; GS 22).-International Theological Commission, Christianity and the World Religions 1997. (1)
Lionel:
‘Pope Pius XII and Vatican Council II has clearly said that those who do not belong visibly to the Church can be saved.’
To be an exception to the exclusive interpretation of the dogma those who do not belong visibly to the Church would have to be known.
Where does Vatican Council II or Pope Pius state that we know these exceptions personally or that they are explicit exceptions to the dogma?. Pope Benedict and Bishop Gerhard Muller just assumed these cases are known to us and so are exceptions to the literal interpretation of the dogma.
Cardinal Luiz Ladaria, the Secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith,Vatican and Archbishop Augustine Di Noia, Vice President of Ecclesia Dei were also associated with the ITC.
International Theological Commission (ITC)
58. In the face of new problems and situations and of an exclusive interpretation of the adage: “salus extra ecclesiam non est”,[88] the magisterium, in recent times, has articulated a more nuanced understanding as to the manner in which a saving relationship with the Church can be realized. The Allocution of Pope Pius IX, Singulari Quadam (1854) clearly states the issues involved: “It must, of course, be held as a matter of faith that outside the apostolic Roman Church no one can be saved, that the Church is the only ark of salvation, and that whoever does not enter it, will perish in the flood. On the other hand, it must likewise be held as certain that those who live in ignorance of the true religion, if such ignorance be invincible, are not subject to any guilt in this matter before the eyes of the Lord”-The Hope of Salvation for Infants who die without being baptized(2007. International Theological Commission)
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/cti_documents/rc_cti_index-doc-pubbl_en.html
Lionel:
The Allocution of Pope PIus IX clearly does not state in the passage cited above that those saved in invincible ignorance are explicitly known and so are exceptions to the dogma which says whoever does not enter into the Church will perish. These exceptional cases are known only to God.The Church Councils and popes knew this. This unfortunately was the error of the Archbishop of Boston Richard Cushing and the Jesuits there.
Pope Benedict XVI and Bishop Gerhard Muller, ITC.
59. The Letter of the Holy Office to the Archbishop of Boston (1949) offers further specifications. “To gain eternal salvation, it is not always required that a person be incorporated in reality (reapse) as a member of the Church, but it is necessary that one belong to it at least in desire and longing (voto et desiderio). It is not always necessary that this desire be explicit as it is with catechumens. When one is invincibly ignorant, God also accepts an implicit desire, so called because it is contained in the good disposition of soul by which a person wants his or her will to be conformed to God’s will”.
Lionel:
Yes in principle a person can be saved with the baptism of desire. In reality, explicitly we do not know any case of a person saved in Heaven with the baptism of desire. So it is not an issue with respect to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. Implicit desire is irrelevant to the literal interpretation of the dogma.It is not even an issue.
International Theological Commission (ITC)
62. It is not possible to develop a theology of the religions without taking into account the universal salvific mission of the Church, attested to by Holy Scripture and by the tradition of faith of the Church. A theological evaluation of the religions was impeded over a long time because of the principle extra ecclesiam nulla salus, understood in an exclusivist sense. With the doctrine about the Church as the universal sacrament of salvation or the sacrament of the kingdom of God, theology seeks to respond to the new way of posing the problem. This teaching, which was also welcomed by Vatican Council II, is linked to the sacramental vision of the Church in the New Testament.-Christianity and the World Religions (2007. ITC)
Lionel:
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus was not just a principle it was a dogma, thrice defined. Historically it was always understood that there is exclusive salvation in only the Catholic Church. There are numerous popes and saints who testify to this.How can you have a theology of religions and overlook Ad Gentes 7 which says all need Catholic Faith and the baptism of water for salvation ?
Pope Benedict XVI and Bishop Gerhard Muller, ITC.
63. The primary question today is not whether men can attain salvation even if they do not belong to the visible Catholic Church; this possibility is considered theologically certain.
Lionel:
Yes and it does not conflict with the literal interpretation of the dogma since we do not know who are these exceptional cases, they are known only to God.
Pope Benedict XVI and Bishop Gerhard Muller, ITC
65. One speaks of the necessity of the Church for salvation in two senses: the necessity of belonging to the Church for those who believe in Jesus and the necessity for salvation of the ministry of the Church which, on mission from God, must be at the service of the coming of the kingdom of God.- Christianity and the World Religions (2007. ITC)
Lionel:
There is the necessity of belonging to the Church for all with no exception on earth. Since we do not know who is in invincible ignorance or those who do not. Only God can judge.
It is not enough to just have faith in Jesus Christ one also has to live the faith and moral teachings of the Catholic Church. A Catholic knows that if he dies in mortal sin he is oriented to Hell even if he had faith in Jesus Christ.
According to the dogma Cantate Domino, Council of Florence, Protestants and Orthodox Christians need to convert to avoid the fires of Hell.
Pope Benedict XVI and Bishop Gerhard Muller, ITC
66. In his encyclical Mystici Corporis, Pius XII addresses the question, How are those who attain salvation outside visible communion with the Church related to her? He says that they are oriented to the mystical body of Christ by a yearning and desire of which they are not aware (DS 3821).-Christianity and the World Religions 2007
Lionel:
Yes they can be saved and we do not know who are these cases specifically. So one cannot imply that those saved with the baptism of desire are exceptions to the dogma. They are not.
Pope Benedict XVI and Bishop Gerhard Muller, ITC
The opposition of the American Jesuit Leonard Feeney, who insisted on the exclusivist interpretation of the expression extra ecclesiam nulla solus, afforded the occasion for the letter of the Holy Office, dated 8 August ,1949, to the archbishop of Boston, which rejected Feeney s interpretation and clarified the teaching of Pius XII.
Lionel:
The Letter of the Holy Office 1949 affirmed Fr.Leonard Feeney’s interpretation when it referred to ‘the dogma’, the ‘infallible teaching’. The infallible dogma indicates all non Catholics in Boston and the rest of the world need to convert into the Catholic Church to avoid the fires of Hell.(Cantate Domino, Council of Florence 1441).
‘The dogma’ did not mention those saved in invincible ignorance or the baptism of desire since they are not defacto, explicit exceptions. The Letter of the Holy Office 1949 does not state that Fr.Leonard Feeney was excommunicated for heresy but for disobedience.The ‘dogma’ the ‘infallibe’teaching supported Fr.Leonadr Feeney on doctrine.
If it was assumed that those saved with the baptism of desire etc are explicit exceptions to the traditional interpretation of the dogma then it was an objective, error. We do not know personally those saved in Heaven. It is only known to God.
-Lionel Andrades
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Nostra Aetate does say that the Church is the' new people of God'. Catholics are the Chosen People.They have the Promised Jewish Messiah, the Eternal Covenant and the Sacrifice of the Holy Mass
The International Theological Commission's position paper Christianity and the World Religions 1997 has an objective factual error and is approved by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger : invincible ignorance is not an exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus
INTERNATIONAL THEOLOGICAL COMMISSION ASSUMES ‘SEEDS OF THE WORD’ (VATICAN COUNCIL II ) IN OTHER RELIGIONS ARE KNOWN TO US AND THIS IS AN EXPLICIT EXCEPTION TO THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS
VATICAN'S INTERNATIONAL THEOLOGICAL COMMISSION MAKES AN ERROR IN ITS POSITION PAPER CHRISTIANITY AND THE WORLD RELIGIONS
Cardinal Luiz Ladaria, Bishop Charles Morerod O.P Oath of Fidelity: to dissent
Profession of Faith allows for dissent on ecclesiology and baptism
INTERNATIONAL THEOLOGICAL COMMISSION USES PREMISE THAT IS FACTUALLY INCORRECT : LIMBO
The International Theological Commission's position paper Christianity and the World Religions 1997 has an objective factual error and is approved by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger : invincible ignorance is not an exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus
INTERNATIONAL THEOLOGICAL COMMISSION ASSUMES ‘SEEDS OF THE WORD’ (VATICAN COUNCIL II ) IN OTHER RELIGIONS ARE KNOWN TO US AND THIS IS AN EXPLICIT EXCEPTION TO THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS
VATICAN'S INTERNATIONAL THEOLOGICAL COMMISSION MAKES AN ERROR IN ITS POSITION PAPER CHRISTIANITY AND THE WORLD RELIGIONS
VATICAN COUNCIL II REJECTS THE THEOLOGY OF RELIGIONS
Former Secretary of the International Theological Commission holds that those saved with the baptism of desire and in invincible ignorance are known to us and so an exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus
SSPX WEBSITE: ' I believe in three baptisms for the forgiveness of sins’ ?
WILL BISHOP BERNARD FELLAY IN THE PROFESSION OF FAITH SAY: 'I BELIEVE IN ONE BAPTISM FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS?
Bishop Fellay, Fr.Schmidberger,FSSP,Joseph Fenton seem unaware the baptism of desire is not an explicit exception to the dogma
CARDINAL LEVADA WRITES PREFACE FOR ITC BOOK : IT SAYS THE HOLY OFFICE CORRECTED FR.LEONARD FEENEY FOR DENYING THE BAPTISM OF DESIRE, WHICH IT IS ASSUMED (WRONGLY) CONTRADICTS THE DOGMA
In what way does the baptism of desire contradict the literal interpretation of the dogma, CDF?
ANGELICUM UNIVERSITY RECTOR REJECTS CHURCH TEACHING ON EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS REPRESENTED THE VATICAN AT FAILED TALKS WITH THE SSPX
ANGELICUM UNIVERSITY PRIEST- PROFESSOR REJECTS DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS: HERESY AND SACRILEGE
ANGELICUM UNIVERSITY IS CHURNING OUT THEOLOGY DEGREES FOR THOSE WHO SAY FR.LEONARD FEENEY WAS EXCOMMUNICATED FOR REJECTING THE BAPTISM OF DESIRE
WE DO NOT KNOW ANYONE SAVED WITH THE BAPTISM OF DESIRE OR INVINCIBLE IGNORANCE SO EVERYONE NEEDS TO ENTER THE CHURCH AS DON BOSCO TAUGHT- Salesian Rector and Parish priest in Rome
VATICAN COUNCIL II AFFIRMS CANTATE DOMINO, COUNCIL OF FLORENCE ON EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS- Fr. Davide Carbonaro
Its a mortal sin to deny the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. It is a sacrilege to receive the Eucharist in this condition- Fr. Gabrielle, priest of the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate
THERE IS NO BAPTISM OF DESIRE THAT WE CAN KNOW OF- Fr.George Puthoor
LEGIONARY OF CHRIST PRIEST FR.RAFAEL PASCUAL AFFIRMS CANTATE DOMINO, COUNCIL OF FLORENCE
FR.TULLIO ROTONDO AFFIRMS CANTATE DOMINO, COUNCIL OF FLORENCE ON EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS
CANTATE DOMINO, COUNCIL OF FLORENCE ON EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS IS DE FIDE AND NOT CONTRADICTED BY VATICAN COUNCIL II- Fr. Nevus Marcello O.P
BRAZILIAN PRIEST SAYS VATICAN COUNCIL II DOES NOT CONTRADICT DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS
CATHOLIC PRIESTS IN ROME AGREE WITH FR.LEONARD FEENEY: THERE IS NO BAPTISM OF DESIRE THAT WE CAN KNOW OF
ANGELICUM UNIVERSITY RECTOR REJECTS CHURCH TEACHING ON EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS REPRESENTED THE VATICAN AT FAILED TALKS WITH THE SSPX
ITC documents 'Christianity and the World Religions' and 'The Hope of Salvation for Infants who die without being baptized ' need to be retracted or corrected: Richard Cushing flaw runs through
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