I have just received the following e-mail from his Excellency Bishop Richard Williamson however he does not directly answer the two questions.
He has said that the 1.' The Church holds the doctrine of Baptism of Desire.' This is true and it is not being denied.However the Church does not say that the baptism of desire is explicit for us instead of implicit. We accept an implicit baptism of desire along with the literal interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
Then he states:'2. What we know or do not know is not the same as what exists or does not exist.' This is a hypothetical, abstract statement and not a response to the question.
-Lionel Andrades
-Lionel Andrades
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Dear Sir/Madame:
Thank you so very much for your recent correspondence. Please find a brief reply from His Lordship below, and excuse the tardiness, as His Lordship's assistants have been much occupied recently.
Meanwhile, be assured of our prayers and continued humble efforts on behalf of Christendom and the Faith.
Regards,
The Administrator
Dinoscopus.org
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 10:55 AM
To: admin@dinoscopus.org
Subject: Re: FW: Two questions for His Excellency Bishop Richard Williamson from Mr.Lionel Andrades in Rome Sept.1,2012
________________________________________
Dear Mr Andrades,
1 The Church holds the doctrine of Baptism of Dsire.
2 What we know or do not know is not the same as what exists or does not exist.
God bless, +Richard Williamson.
__________________________________________
From: Lionel Andrades [mailto:lionelandrades10@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2012 3:24 PM
To: editorial@dinoscopus.org
Subject: Two questions for His Excellency Bishop Richard Williamson from Mr.Lionel Andrades in Rome Sept.1,2012
To the Most Rev.Bishop Richard Williamson,
Dear Bishop Williamson,
I have been asking many religious the following two questions and I hope you would also kindly answer them.
1) Do we personally know the dead saved in invincible ignorance, a good conscience (LG 16) etc ?
2) Since we do not know any of these cases, there are no known exceptions to the literal interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus ?
In Christ
Lionel Andrades
Catholic Layman in Rome
E-mail : lionelandrades10@gmail.com
YOUTUBE BISHOP RICHARD WILLIAMSON MAKES A DOCTRINAL ERROR
Posts
8 comments:
Baptism of Desire (so-called) is not a "doctrine". B of D is a theological speculation. It is neither Apostolic nor is it the unanimous teaching of the Fathers and Doctors of the Church. It is unprovable and unable to be demonstrated. It is the main tool used by the devil to undercut belief in a DEFINED DOGMA OF THE FAITH. How is BofD received? Who gets it? How does one know who has it? Can one lose it? Must Water Baptism follow? May the recipient receive other Sacraments? Each person seems to have their own version of what BofD IS! A Doctrine of the Church would have a uniform application and understanding.
As posted: "Dear Mr Andrades,
1 The Church holds the doctrine of Baptism of Desire.
2 What we know or do not know is not the same as what exists or does not exist.
God bless, +Richard Williamson."
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Both answers by Bishop Richardson are accurate BUT do not answer the question you pose, Lionel of teaching Our Catholic faith properly.
I would say to #1 Of course Baptism of Desire is a Church taught possibility for Salvation as known by God alone but in NO way should ever be taught as an option that one could choose from. And that is the danger, in that most in the Church teach Baptism of Desire is a teachable exception and/or option for Salvation. If this means of Salvation does occur it would not fall under the decree by Jesus to go forth and teach all nations in what I have commanded you.
As far as #2 it is not a question of what exists or does not exist but a question of what we teach or do not teach. Father Feeney taught the faith clearly without exception whereas Cardinal Cushing taught our Catholic Faith as having recognizable exceptions to No Salvation Outside the Catholic Church and this tragedy has gone a long way to all but destroy the Faith and water down No Salvation Outside the Catholic Church, just as Pope Pius XII had warned.
There are no exceptions ever to teach to someone that they may be saved by Baptism of Desire. If and when Baptism of Desire occurs it is completely in the hands of God and not the teaching mission of the Church. By example if 300 people were in attendance at a teaching and instructing lesson, he could never say that one of your options for Salvation is to choose Baptism of Desire. That would be nonsense. If a person were judged to be worthy to enter Heaven by Baptism of Desire that could only be known and bestowed on them by God alone and not as a taught exception to No Salvation Outside the Catholic Church.
Anonymous,
I wish you would write under your name if your sure of your Catholic Faith.
Baptism of Desire (so-called) is not a "doctrine".
Implicit desire is mentioned by the popes.
It is also mentioned in the Council of Trent.
Fr.Leonard Feeney's community have accepted a definition of the baptism of desire.
They believe that a genuine desire accompanied with charity and the baptism of water can result in salvation.
Anonymous
B of D is a theological speculation.
It is speculation if it is assumed that the baptism of desire is known in personal cases.
Anonymous
It is unprovable and unable to be demonstrated.
Since it is unknown to us and cannot be demonstrated it it irrelevant to the dogma.
Anonymous
It is the main tool used by the devil to undercut belief in a DEFINED DOGMA OF THE FAITH.
If you speculate that it is known to us in personal cases then it would undercut belief in a defined dogma of the faith.
Only if it is known in reality, personally.
How is BofD received? Who gets it? How does one know who has it? Can one lose it? Must Water Baptism follow? May the recipient receive other Sacraments? Each person seems to have their own version of what BofD IS! A Doctrine of the Church would have a uniform application and understanding.
Anonymous
How is BofD received? Who gets it? How does one know who has it? Can one lose it? Must Water Baptism follow? May the recipient receive other Sacraments?
Since it is implicit,and known only to God we cannot answer these questions. It cannot be known to us.
There is no point in speculating since we do not know any case of the baptism of desie on earth.
Anonymous
Each person seems to have their own version of what BofD IS! A Doctrine of the Church would have a uniform application and understanding.
They have their own version since often they assume that the batpism of desire is visible to us just like the baptism of desire.
We do not know any case yet there is so much speculation.
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