To achieve membership in the Catholic Church, one must be baptized. To be baptized, one must have received a baptism celebrated in water. Anything else is not Baptism. Anything else will not bring salvation.
Anything else is not Baptism. Anything else will not bring salvation.
Anything else is not available!Period.
There is no choice.
We cannot chose to receive the baptism of desire.
-Lionel Andrades
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9 comments:
Bingo! Not only can we not be offered or choose Baptism of Desire so too we can not offer or tell someone that they can choose invincible ignorance. I would forget about MHFM, they are a non Catholic cult that is self destructing. No good can come from visiting or trying to explain their website.
JMJ,
George Brenner
I would forget about MHFM, they are a non Catholic cult that is self destructing. No good can come from visiting or trying to explain their website.
Lionel:
The MHFM concept of the baptism of desire per se, is one of being explicit and visible to us.This is also an error with the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, SSPX, liberals and traditionalists, including the Vatican.
When this error is corrected then the MHFM,MICM,SSPX etc will be able to see that there are no known exceptions to the literal and traditional interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
They will all, including the MHFM, realize that Vatican Council II does not contradict the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus as known to the MHFM and MIHM.
Once the MHFM understand this they can review their position on Vatican Council II and sedevacantism.
Otherwise they are good traditionalists and we can agree with them on many things.
Once this common misconception is settled, they could continue their traditional apostolate within the Catholic Church.
Pope Boniface VIII:
Unam Sanctam..Indeed we declare, say, pronounce, and define that it is altogether necessary to salvation for every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff."
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Lionel said: Once the MHFM understand this they can review their position on Vatican Council II and sedevacantism.
Otherwise they are good traditionalists and we can agree with them on many things.
Once this common misconception is settled, they could continue their traditional apostolate within the Catholic Church.
Good traditionalist????? They are an evil cult. They call all of the VCII Popes anti Popes. They make up their own rules and religion. They do quote many excellent teachings of the Church and pervert them to their own formulas. They deny the possibility of Baptism of Desire in the implicit possibilities of mercy by God. I could go on and on but I pray that you are not influenced by the likes of them.
JMJ,
George Brenner
They call all of the VCII Popes anti Popes
Lionel:
Yes since they believe Vatican Council II contraditcs the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
Yes, Vatican Council II with Cushingism contradicts the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
Vatican Council II interpreted with Feeneyism affirms extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
So all sides need to see this.
Once they understand that they are interpreting Vatican Council II with Cushingism, just like the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, there is hope that they will realize that the Council is traditional and in agreement with the popes and saints whom they quote.
They deny the possibility of Baptism of Desire in the implicit possibilities of mercy by God.
Lionel:
Yes they deny the Baptism of Desire since they assume it is explicit and known to us. So for them the baptism of desire is a contradiction to the dogma. So they reject it.
There concept of the baptism of desire per se is one of being explicit and known in the present times. This is also the error of the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, SSPX, liberals and other traditionalists.
Over time the MHFM will understand the common mistake.
but I pray that you are not influenced by the likes of them.
Lionel:
For me Vatican Council II is in agreement with the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. There are no known exceptions.
For Pope Francis, and most of the Church, Vatican Council II contradicts the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. For me this is heresy. It is a mortal sin, when it is known and continued.
However Pope Francis, is my pope. He can correct the error over time. So can the others in the Church. The Sacrament of Confession is also available for them, as long as they are alive.
Lionel:
For me Vatican Council II is in agreement with the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. There are no known exceptions.
George: There are no known exceptions either known or unknown. A person who enters Heaven as a Catholic or will be Catholic by the mercies of God. I suggest using the word, exception. There are no exceptions known or unknown.
Lionel: For Pope Francis, and most of the Church, Vatican Council II contradicts the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. For me this is heresy. It is a mortal sin, when it is known and continued.
However Pope Francis, is my pope. He can correct the error over time. So can the others in the Church. The Sacrament of Confession is also available for them, as long as they are alive,
George: The crisis in the Church is clearly due to the VCII Popes in not teaching with clarity the very essence issues of our Catholic Faith. The lack of reverence and babel must be made clear by the Holy Father NOW !!!!
JMJ,
George Brenner
I suggest using the word, exception.
Lionel:
The word exception is not used in Vatican Council II.
Since there are no known exceptions there are no exceptions.
So for the text in Vatican Council II which are mistaken for exceptions(Deadwood Statements), we could use the word possibilities.
The baptism of desire is a possibility but not an exception.
Those who know about Jesus and the church and yet do not enter and are damned, are known only God so they are not exceptions to anything. They are possibilities for us.
Those who are saved in imperfect communion with the Church are not known exceptions. They are not exceptions and Unitatis Redintigratio,Vatican Council II, does not claim they are exceptions, they can only be possibilities known to God.
I suggest using the word, exception is what I said but I thought for sure that I put the word NOT before exception.
There are NO exceptions.
JMJ,
George
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