You Fr.R. have affirmed here that the deceased who are now saved in Heaven with the baptism of desire etc are not visible to us on earth :so how can they be exceptions to the dogma ?

Fr.R:

As you say in sound classical logic, “nego maiorem”.

 

Lionel:

What do you negate ?

1.Do you negate that we cannot see the dead
 who are in Heaven ?

2.Do you negate that these deceased in Heaven
 are visible exceptions to Fr.Leonard  Feeney ?

3.Do you negate an empirical, objective 
observation that the deceased are not visible 

to us on earth?

When are you going to comment on this?

_______________________________

Fr.R:

I don’t. Instead I negate that all these things are 
consequences of the supposed errors in the magisterial 

documents.

Lionel:

1.Do you negate that we cannot see the dead
 who are in Heaven ?

2.You affirm  that these deceased in Heaven 
are not visible exceptions to Fr.Leonard 

Feeney ?

3.You agree that empirically, objectively the 
deceased are not visible to us on earth?

1. The magisterial texts I have quoted do not
 infer that we can see the dead who are 

in Heaven?

2.The magisterial texts do not affirm that the 
deceased in Heaven are visible exceptions

 to Fr.Leonard Feeney?

___________________________________________________

Fr.R:

 I don’t. Instead I negate that all these things are
 consequences of the supposed errors in the

 magisterial documents.

1.Do you negate that we cannot see the dead
 who are in Heaven ? I don’t

2.You affirm  that these deceased in Heaven
 are not visible exceptions to 

Fr.Leonard Feeney ? I don’t know the position
 of Fr. Feeney. For me is not the question.

 Is irrelevant.

3.You agree that empirically, objectively the 
deceased are not visible to us on earth? 

Yes, of course

1. The magisterial texts I have quoted do not
 infer that we can see the dead who are 

in Heaven? They don’t, of course. That’s the
 point. “Nego maiorem”.

2.The magisterial texts do not affirm that the 
deceased in Heaven are visible exceptions

 to Fr.Leonard Feeney???? Irrelevant.

________________________________________

Fr:R:

2.You affirm  that these deceased in Heaven are not visible 
exceptions to Fr.Leonard Feeney ? I don’t know  the position
 of Fr. Feeney. For me is not the question. Is irrelevant.

Lionel:

Let me explain. This question is central to what I 
have been writing.

Fr.Leonard Feeney like the saints and Church
 Fathers  held that very one needed  to enter the
 Church  for salvation. His traditional position 
 was that all needed to  be formal members of the
 Catholic Church to avoid Hell.

 For him those who died without 'faith and baptism', 
Catholic Faith and the baptism  of water were 
oriented  to Hell.The baptism of desire was a 
possibility for him but it would be followed  by the
 baptism of water.There were no exceptions to the 
baptism of water.

The Letter of the Holy Office 1949 says Fr.Leonard
 Feeney and the St. Benedict Center are wrong since
 a person can die in invincible ignorance or with 
implicit  desire (for the baptism of water) and be
 saved.So for the Letter of the Holy Office  there
 were exceptions for the baptism of water. There
 were known replacements  for the baptism of 
water  i.e baptism of desire etc without the 
baptism of water.

For them there is salvation outside the Church
 and so every one does not have  to be a formal
 member of the  Catholic Church to  be saved.

You Fr.R. have affirmed here that the deceased 
who are  now saved in Heaven with the baptism
 of desire etc are not visible to us on earth. 
We cannot  see the deceased  on earth.

So the question is : if we do not know any such
 case  on earth how can the baptism  of desire 
and being saved in invincible ignorance be

 exceptions to the interpretation of Fr.Leonard
  Feeney? For them to be exceptions they would
 have  to be known and visible. Zero cases of
 something are not exceptions said the apologist 
John Martigioni.

For him the baptism of desire and being saved in
 invincible ignorance are not  exceptions to extra 
ecclesiam nulla salus.

For you they are exceptions?

-Lionel Andrades

Do you negate an empirical, objective 
observation that the deceased are not 
visible  to us on earth? When are you 
going to comment  on this?

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/09/do-you-negate-empirical
-objective.html#links