If it was Cardinal Kasper trying to get rid of the dogma it would be understandable.
Who was the person who decided originally that St.Emerentiana was saved without the baptism of water? How did he know?
Who in the Catholic Church officially declared she went to Heaven without the baptism of water. How did he know? What was his name?
How can the sedevacantists and traditionalists know she is in Heaven without the baptism of water and so she contradicts the centuries old Feeneyite version of the dogma EENS?
No one in Bishop Donald Sanborn's community knows of a single exception to EENS today (July1, 2015). They all agree with me here.
They all agree that today July 1,and yesterday June 20, while discussing this issue on Twitter, there is not a single known exception of someone who has gone to Heaven or is going to Heaven without Catholic Faith and the baptism of water.
Sedevacantists, traditionalists and liberal Catholics are in agreement here.No one can name an example today, this month, this year or during their lifetime.
We have a consensus here.There are no known tangible, visible in the flesh exceptions. CMRI sedevacantist members agree here with me.
This is a set back for the liberals, for the Left. A major set back.Since Vatican Council II 'will have changed direction'.
The liberals cannot cite Lumen Gentium 16 ( saved in invincible ignorance) as an exception to Feeneyite EENS, since there cannot humanly be a known exception.
LG 16 is a possibility but it is not an exception.
Dogmatically it is a possibility followed by the baptism of water and it is still not an explicit exception to EENS.
So where are the citations in Vatican Council II for cardinals Kaspar and Koch to quote?. How can they quote LG 16, LG 8, UR 3 etc to support a new ecclesiology and new theology with reference to the Jews and Christian communities? Since Vatican Council II says all need Catholic Faith (AG 7, LG 14) and none of us knows of any exception.
It would be in the interest of cardinals Kaspar and Koch to cause confusion ( as they have done all these years) and cite St.Emerentiana or someone else, but why are the CMRI, SSPX and others doing the dirty work for the liberals and heretics?
-Lionel Andrades
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2 comments:
What you don't (won't ?) understand is that BOB or BOD without BOW is not an exception to EENS. When you speak of nonsense such as "in the flesh" exceptions we can see today, you come off sounding even more unbalanced. Except for Jesus Christ and the Blessed Mother there are no bodies in Heaven so you can't see the souls of the just!!
Who decided St. E was in Heaven? The Church who declared her a saint! Check the Roman Martyrology. "Centuries old Feenyite..." Please! Feeney wasn't around for centuries, was he? You and this blog are just one heretical joke. Give it up .
IAAD
What you don't (won't ?) understand is that BOB or BOD without BOW is not an exception to EENS
Lionel:
We have discussed this extensively on Twitter.Finally you could not say that you know someone in the present times, who is in Heaven without faith and the baptism of water.
You cannot name any one.
So still you cannot name an exception, someone whom you can physically see on earth who is in Heaven without the baptism of water.I repeat I am refer to a literal case, something physical and not some theology or theory.
So I agree that there are no exceptions in the present times, none whom we can see or meet. This is also the position, I assume of Bishop Donald Sanborn and Fr.Anthony Cekada.
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When you speak of nonsense such as "in the flesh" exceptions we can see today, you come off sounding even more unbalanced
Lionel:
I have to keep reminding many people that the baptism of desire(BOD) and Baptism of blood(BOD)cases, would be in Heaven. So they would not be seen on earth. So they could not be exceptions to EENS.They are zero cases on earth. They are invisible for us humans.
Since you criticise Fr. Leonard Feeney and support Cardinal Marchetti I have to remind you that BOD and BOB cases cannot be seen in the flesh to be relevant to the dogma.When you criticise Fr.Feeney you infer that the dead-saved are visible and meaningful for you, with respect to the dogma.
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Who decided St. E was in Heaven? The Church who declared her a saint!
Lionel:
Yes she is a saint and she is in Heaven. But who decided that she is in Heaven without the baptism of water?Did this unknown person have the gift to see and meet her in Heaven and confirm that she was an exception to the dogmatic teaching?
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Please! Feeney wasn't around for centuries, was he?
Lionel:
Feeneyism has been the offical teaching of the Catholic Church for centuries.
BOD and BOB allegedly without BOW, originated in the 1940's.
In the past, for centuries BOB and BOD were accepted but were separated from the dogma. They were not considered explicit exceptions in the present times to EENS.
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