Monday, February 26, 2018

When you read the text of Vatican Council II do not read the text as being for and against extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS). This would mean you are using the false premise

When you read the text of Vatican Council II do not read the text as being for and against extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS). This would mean you are using the false premise.

You assume that hypothetical cases are not hypothetical and exclude the baptism of water in the Catholic Church. The text does not say this.However this is the common inference.
Image result for photo Christopher Ferrara and Roberto dei Mattei
This creates a rupture with EENS as it was known in the past and it is rejection of the past exclusivist ecclesiology of the Church.



Even the traditionalists and sedevacantists are interpreting Vatican Council II schismatically.Chris Ferrara and Bishop Donald Sanborn use the false premise to make the Council a rupture with the past Magisterium.Then they blame Vatican Council II.

EXAMPLE : LUMEN GENTIUM 14

14. This Sacred Council wishes to turn its attention firstly to the Catholic faithful. Basing itself upon Sacred Scripture and Tradition, it teaches that the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation. Christ, present to us in His Body, which is the Church, is the one Mediator and the unique way of salvation. In explicit terms He Himself affirmed the necessity of faith and baptism and thereby affirmed also the necessity of the Church, for through baptism as through a door men enter the Church. Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved.(Note: Do not assume that this passage contradicts EENS. For me it  refers to a hypothetical case.)
They are fully incorporated in the society of the Church who, possessing the Spirit of Christ accept her entire system and all the means of salvation given to her, and are united with her as part of her visible bodily structure and through her with Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. The bonds which bind men to the Church in a visible way are profession of faith, the sacraments, and ecclesiastical government and communion. He is not saved, however, who, though part of the body of the Church, does not persevere in charity. He remains indeed in the bosom of the Church, but, as it were, only in a "bodily" manner and not "in his heart." All the Church's children should remember that their exalted status is to be attributed not to their own merits but to the special grace of Christ. If they fail moreover to respond to that grace in thought, word and deed, not only shall they not be saved but they will be the more severely judged.
Catechumens who, moved by the Holy Spirit, seek with explicit intention to be incorporated into the Church are by that very intention joined with her. With love and solicitude Mother Church already embraces them as her own.(Note: This passage does not contradict the strict interpretation of the dogma EENS,unless you are assuming unknown and physically invisible catechumens in 2018 are known and nameable examples of salvation outside the Church).

This mistake is made here in this blog post at Catholic Sensibility.


Lumen Gentium 14

Who’s in? Who’s out? Lumen Gentium 14 answers it:
This Sacred Council wishes to turn its attention firstly to the Catholic faithful. Basing itself upon Sacred Scripture and Tradition, it teaches that the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation. Christ, present to us in His Body, which is the Church, is the one Mediator and the unique way of salvation. In explicit terms He Himself affirmed the necessity of faith and baptism(Cf. Mk 16, 16; Jn. 3, 5) and thereby affirmed also the necessity of the Church, for through baptism as through a door (people) enter the Church. Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved.
They are fully incorporated in the society of the Church who, possessing the Spirit of Christ accept her entire system and all the means of salvation given to her, and are united with her as part of her visible bodily structure and through her with Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. The bonds which bind (people) to the Church in a visible way are profession of faith, the sacraments, and ecclesiastical government and communion. (One) is not saved, however, who, though part of the body of the Church, does not persevere in charity. (That one) remains indeed in the bosom of the Church, but, as it were, only in a “bodily” manner and not “in (the) heart.”(Cfr. S. Augustinus, Bapt. c. Donat. V, 28, 39; PL 43, 197: Certe manifestum est, id quod dicitur, in Ecdesia intus et foris, in corde, non in corpore cogitandum. Cfr. ib., III, 19, 26: col. 152; V, 18, 24: col. 189; In Io. Tr. 61, 2: PL 35, 1800, et alibi saepe.) All the Church’s children should remember that their exalted status is to be attributed not to their own merits but to the special grace of Christ. If they fail moreover to respond to that grace in thought, word and deed, not only shall they not be saved but they will be the more severely judged.(Cfr. Lc. 12, 48: Omni autem, cui multum datum est, multum quaeretur ab eo. Cfr. etiam Mt. 5, 19-20; 7, 21-22; 25 41-46; Iac., 2, 14.)
A few comments … This section leaves untouched the notion of those who are incorporated, though in less fully a way. This section also condemns the lack of charity in a believer. A fate worse than unbelievers awaits, according to St Augustine, at any rate.
Catechumens who, moved by the Holy Spirit, seek with explicit intention to be incorporated into the Church are by that very intention joined with her. With love and solicitude Mother Church already embraces them as her own.
And if catechumens, why not others?
(There are no known catechumens who are saved with the baptism of desire and who are known to us. So this is a hypothetical reference. It is not an exception to EENS.)
Image result for photo  Roberto dei Mattei
Image result for photo  Roberto dei Mattei
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Image result for photo  Roberto dei Mattei

Image result for photo  Roberto dei Mattei

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From Catholic Answers
I am sorry if this question has been debated many times before, but I will try to narrow it down as much as possible.
In Lumen Gentium 14 we read the following:
Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved.
What do you think that the council means by "knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ"? What does it mean to "know"? Does it mean that everyone that has heard about the necessity of the Catholic Church (including submitting to the authority of the Roman Pontiff) but still refuses to enter it cannot be saved? That would mean that all non-Catholic Christians including all protestants and Eastern Orthodox that know about the Catholic Church's own claims cannot be saved.
Or, does it merely mean that everyone who has been convinced that the Catholic Church is necessary for salvation need to enter it? In that case, the meaning of this sentence would narrow down to mean almost nothing, for why wouldn't anyone who knows in his or her heart that the Catholic Church is necessary for salvation want to enter it?

You're right. Anyone who knows about the Church and rejects it is lost. This simply means there are billions of people clamoring to get into Hell.

https://forums.catholic.com/t/eens-what-does-lumen-gentium-14-really-say/201732



Catholic Answers assumes there are known people.The reference in Lumen Gentium 14 is to a hypothetical case.
So why is it mentioned in Vatican Council II? Since the Council Fathers repeated the mistake in the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 to the Archbishop of Boston.The Letter wrongly assumes hypothetical and invisible  cases of the baptism of desire, baptism of blood and being saved in invincible ignorance are visible and concrete exceptions to the Feeneyite interpretation of the dogma EENS.This was false. The error was not corrected by the popes.
We can avoid this error when reading Vatican Council II (LG 14, LG 8, LG 16, UR 3, Na 2, GS 22 etc).
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Gavin D'Costa in his book published by Oxford University Press makes this error. He assumes invincible ignorance (LG 16) etc are exceptions to the dogma EENS. So he reads hypothetical passages in Vatican Council II as being non hypothetical. So there are orthodox and non orthdodox passages for him in the Council II. He has accepted the false premise ( invisible people are visible exceptions to EENS in the present times.)


Front CoverImage result for Photo of Gavin D'costaImage result for Photo of Gavin D'costaImage result for Photo of Gavin D'costa

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- Lionel Andrades




 MARCH 4, 2017

Unknown




English universities present a lie on Catholic theology and doctrine - unethical for academics

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2017/03/english-universities-present-lie-on.html


AY 25, 2015

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/05/prof-gavin-dcosta-is-using.html
Photograph of Dr Susannah TicciatiProfessor Paul Joyce

OCTOBER 9, 2014



Faculty at the Department of Theology and Religious Studies Kings College, London use an irrational premise which is a falsehood.

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/10/professor-paul-joyce-and-dr-susannah.html

OCTOBER 7, 2014



Universities in England have a new interpretation of Catholic doctrine : uncontested http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/10/universities-in-england-have-new.html

When the University of Bristol permits Prof. Gavin D'Costa and the faculty to use an irrational premise, it is a secular lie http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/10/when-university-of-bristol-permits-prof.html 

Gavin D'Costa comes across as professionally unethical.His irrationality would not be accepted by academics in England http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/04/gavin-dcosta-comes-across-as.html 

Gavin D'Costa presents an irrational view of the Catholic Faith to the Islamic Society of the University of Bristol and visiting Muslim professors http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/04/gavin-dcosta-presents-irrational-view.html 

Muslim professors must know exactly what are the teachings of the Catholic Church about Islam and other religions, before and after Vatican Council II http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/04/muslim-professors-must-know-exactly.html  

APRIL 9, 2015

University of Bristol and Gavin D'Costa repeat the lie on Catholic teaching : interprets Vatican Council II with Cushingism http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/04/university-of-bristol-and-gavin-dcosta.html



October 7, 2014

Department of Theology and Religious Studies at the University of Bristol is still teaching an irrationality : even after being informed

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/10/department-of-theology-and-religious.html

May 31, 2014

Joseph Shaw, Gavin D'Costa obedient to Cardinal Vince Nicols are misleading lay Catholics http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/05/joseph-shaw-gavin-dcosta-obedient-to.html

May 29, 2014

Cardinal Nicols and FIUV are telling a falsehood. Why do rank and file Catholics have to accept it? http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/05/cardinal-nicols-and-fiuv-are-telling.html

May 20, 2014

If someone is saved with ' a ray of the Truth' (Nostra Aetate 2) it is not known in 2014, so NA 2 does not contradict AG 7 or extra ecclesiam nulla salushttp://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/05/if-someone-is-saved-with-ray-of-truth.html#links

APRIL 25, 2015

Gavin D'Costa will not say that Vatican Council II indicates all Muslims in Britain and elsewhere are on the way to Hell : there is no correction or apology for irrational reasoning  http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/04/gavin-dcosta-will-not-say-that-vatican.html 

Gavin D'Costa has not denied that he uses a false reasoning, which is factually and objectively incorrect http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/04/gavin-dcosta-has-not-denied-that-he.html 

MAY 10, 2014

Prof.Gavin D'Costa cannot say that all the Muslims in England are on the way to Hell according to Vatican Council II (AG 7)

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/05/profgavin-dcosta-cannot-say-that-all.html

MAY 8, 2014

Lady Hale is promoting the political left version of Vatican Council II at the University of Bristol, England

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/05/lady-hale-is-promoting-political-left.html

May 5, 2014

University of Bristol is making the same factual error on Nostra Aetate as Cardinal Richard Cushing and the Jesuits in Boston

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/05/university-of-bristol-is-making-same.html#links


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