Repost : Pope Benedict XVI’s objective,factual error in Light of the World - Conversation with Peter Seewald (Ignatius)

 

APRIL 15, 2012

Pope Benedict XVI’s objective,factual error in Light of the World(Ignatius) p.107 is contributing to widespread liberalism and dissent in the Catholic Church.

Pope Benedict XVI’s objective,factual error in Light of the World (Ignatius) p.107 is contributing to widespread liberalism and dissent in the Catholic Church. Many Catholics have just accepted the assumption that those saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire are defacto,explicit exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and to Ad Gentes 7,Vatican Council II.-Lionel Andrades

'Light of the World' p.107 expresses Pope Benedict’s personal opinion or is the ordinary magisterium: the pope wrongly assumes those saved in invincible ignorance are known exceptions to the dogma and the SSPX position on ecumenism and non Catholic religions

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/04/light-of-world-p107-expresses-pope.html

There could soon be an 'ecclesial rupture' because the Vatican does not want to say that there can be two interpretations of Vatican Council II.

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/04/there-could-soon-be-ecclesial-rupture.html

VATICAN-SSPX NEED TO CALL TIME OUT: ERROR IN LIGHT OF THE WORLD DIRECTLY LINKED TO DIFFERENCES IN ECUMENISM, INTER-RELIGIOUS DIALOGUE, RELIGIOUS LIBERTY WHICH MSGR.NICOLA BUX MENTIONED

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/04/vatican-sspx-need-to-call-time-out.html

HOLY FATHER ASSUMES THOSE SAVED IN INVINCIBLE IGNORANCE ARE KNOWN TO US: CONTRADICTS VATICAN COUNCIL I AND II

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/04/holy-father-assumes-those-saved-in.html

HOLY FATHER MAKES AN OBJECTIVE ERROR IN WRITING

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/04/holy-father-makes-objective-error-in.html

DID THE POPE REALLY DENY THE FAITH ON THE NEED FOR JEWS TO CONVERT ?

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/04/did-pope-really-deny-faith-on-need-for.html

ANIVERSARY OF THE DENIAL OF THE FAITH BY THE MAGISTERIUM ?

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/04/aniversary-of-denial-of-faith-by.html

The International Theological Commission's position paper Christianity and the World Religions 1997 has an objective factual error and is approved by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger : invincible ignorance is not an exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/03/international-theological-commissions.html

INTERNATIONAL THEOLOGICAL COMMISSION ASSUMES ‘SEEDS OF THE WORD’ (VATICAN COUNCIL II ) IN OTHER RELIGIONS ARE KNOWN TO US AND THIS IS AN EXPLICIT EXCEPTION TO THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/03/international-theological-commission.html

VATICAN'S INTERNATIONAL THEOLOGICAL COMMISSION MAKES AN ERROR IN ITS POSITION PAPER CHRISTIANITY AND THE WORLD RELIGIONS

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/03/vaticans-international-theological.html

Bishop Fellay, Fr.Schmidberger,FSSP,Joseph Fenton seem unaware the baptism of desire is not an explicit exception to the dogma

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/03/bishop-fellay-frschmidbergerfsspjoseph.html

FRIDAY, APRIL 13, 2012

'Light of the World' p.107 expresses Pope Benedict’s personal opinion or is the ordinary magisterium: the pope wrongly assumes those saved in invincible ignorance are known exceptions to the dogma and the SSPX position on ecumenism and non Catholic religions

A comment on this blog says that in Light of the World (Ignatius)p.107 the Holy Father was only expressing a personal opinion.Whether it was his personal opinion or the ordinary magisterium there was a factual, objective error.

I respect Pope Benedict XVI and I value what he writes.The point I wanted to make was that we do not know explicit cases of those saved in invincible ignorance etc as the pope assumes. Since we do not know any of these cases they are not explicit exceptions to the ancient teaching that there is exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church only and there are no (known) exceptions.

Since the pope makes this error he assumes that Vatican Council II mentions exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

Since he thinks there are so many exceptions ( seeds of the Word, good conscience etc),then for him, the traditional position on ecumenism and other religions of the Society of St.Pius X(SSPX) is flawed. He would expect the SSPX to accept that there are defacto known cases of non Catholics in the present time (2011-2012 ) saved in invincible ignorance etc.We know there are no such cases.

These cases are always possibilities. They can never be defacto known to us. Since they are only possibilities always, they do not contradict the defined dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus which says all need to convert into the Church for salvation. It also does not contradict Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II which states all need Catholic Faith and the baptism of water for salvation.

The SSPX needs to publicly state that there are no known exceptions to the dogma mentioned in Vatican Council II. There are no reference texts.

Also before any decision is taken on the SSPX a public clarification (non secret) should be asked of the the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith,Vatican.

The pope approved two position papers of the International Theological Commission(ITC) with the same error. The two papers are

1.

Christianity and the World Religions(1997)

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/cti_documents/rc_cti_1997_cristianesimo-religioni_en.html.

2. THE HOPE OF SALVATION FOR INFANTS WHO DIE WITHOUT BEING BAPTISED

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/cti_documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20070419_un-baptised-infants_en.html

The President of the ITC was Cardinal Luiz Ladaria, Secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. He represented the Vatican in failed talks with the SSPX. They differed over the issue of ecumenism, inter religious dialogue and religious liberty indicated by  the Open Letter to the SSPX by Mnsgr.Nicola Bux, Consultant to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and the Office of Liturgical Celebrations of the Pope .

It may be mentioned that though the pope made the objective error in the book by Peter Seewald in none of the magisterial documents, including those issued by Cardinal Ratzinger and then Pope Benedict XVI,  is it said that those saved in invincible ignorance etc are known to us personally or that they are explicit exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.No magisterial text including that of Vatican Council II makes this error.

-Lionel Andrades
_______________________________________

There is no reference text in Vatican Council II contrary to the SSPX position on other religions, ecumenism
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/04/there-is-no-reference-text-in-vatican.html#links

CONDITIONS FOR THE SSPX TO 'ENTER THE CHURCH'
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/04/conditions-for-sspx-to-enter-church.html#links

There could soon be an 'ecclesial rupture' because the Vatican does not want to say that there can be two interpretations of Vatican Council II.
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/04/there-could-soon-be-ecclesial-rupture.html

CATHOLICS THROUGHOUT THE WORLD PRAYED TODAY FOR 'HERETICS AND SCHISMATICS': DIVINE MERCY NOVENA
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/04/catholics-throughout-world-prayed-today.html

VATICAN-SSPX NEED TO CALL TIME OUT: ERROR IN LIGHT OF THE WORLD DIRECTLY LINKED TO DIFFERENCES IN ECUMENISM, INTER-RELIGIOUS DIALOGUE, RELIGIOUS LIBERTY WHICH MSGR.NICOLA BUX MENTIONED
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/04/vatican-sspx-need-to-call-time-out.html

HOLY FATHER ASSUMES THOSE SAVED IN INVINCIBLE IGNORANCE ARE KNOWN TO US: CONTRADICTS VATICAN COUNCIL I AND II
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/04/holy-father-assumes-those-saved-in.html

HOLY FATHER MAKES AN OBJECTIVE ERROR IN WRITING
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/04/holy-father-makes-objective-error-in.html



DID THE POPE REALLY DENY THE FAITH ON THE NEED FOR JEWS TO CONVERT ?
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/04/did-pope-really-deny-faith-on-need-for.html

ANIVERSARY OF THE DENIAL OF THE FAITH BY THE MAGISTERIUM ?
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/04/aniversary-of-denial-of-faith-by.html

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 11, 2012

There could soon be an 'ecclesial rupture' because the Vatican does not want to say that there can be two interpretations of Vatican Council II.

If the pope does not know personally of non Catholics saved in 2012 in invincible ignorance and when Vatican Council II does not make this claim of knowing explicit cases in real life how can the magisterium reject the SSPX doctrinal position on other religions, ecumenism and dialogue?

The SSPX (Society of St.Pius X) is not obliged to accept an interpretation of Vatican Council II with no supporting text on ecumenism and inter religious dialogue. Nowhere does Vatican Council II say Judaism is a path to salvation or that Jews are saved in general in their religion. Instead the Magisterium is unable to say in public that Vatican Council II (AG 7) says Judaism and other religions are not paths to salvation and that Catholics are the Chosen People of God (NA 4).

Why does the SSPX have to accept Vatican Council II when the pope and his Curia will not affirm Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II?

The Holy Father is not proclaiming the Faith for political reasons and the falsehood and lies are being repeated by thousands of Catholics to protect their self interest or due to ignorance.

There could soon be an 'ecclesial rupture' because the Vatican does not want to say that there can be two interpretations of Vatican Council II. One according to the text of Vatican Council II and the other due to political necessity and survival and with no references from Vatican Council II text.

I repeat - Vatican Council II does not mention a visible baptism of desire or known- to- us- in- Heaven-cases of non Catholics saved in invincible ignorance, a good conscience or seeds of the Word. So there is no doctrinal basis for rejecting the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus or Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II. SSPX was in agreement with Vatican Council II on ecumenism, inter religious dialogue and religious liberty in the Vatican-SSPX failed talks.

The Vatican needs to clarify in public if they know any case of non Catholics saved in invincible ignorance, the seeds of the Word and a good conscience.

If the answer is No then they should permit the SSPC not to accept Vatican Council II (Jewish Left version) - with the Vatican agreeing to clarify the issue over time.

Catholics should sign petitions and place advertisements in the newspapers asking a politically oriented Curia how can those saved in invincible ignorance and a good conscience in the year 2012, be explicit exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and so how can the SSPX position on ecumenism and inter religious dialogue be wrong?

Catechism Teachers should ask the Vatican how can they excommunicate the SSPX for affirming the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (in accord with Vatican Council II) when there is no contradicting text in Vatican Council II to reject the SSPX position on other religions?

Religious communities ask the Vatican why you all cannot accept the literal interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus and also implicit baptism of desire and invincible ignorance. Until this issue is settled there should not be an 'ecclesial rupture' with the SSPX.

Assuming Fr. Leonard Feeney was excommunicated for denying invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire (and he was not!) you can go ahead and affirm implicit invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire and also the literal interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus?

Catholic religious communities who attend the Novus Ordo Mass why cannot you accept the literal interpretation of extra ecclesism nulla salus and also implicit baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance implicitly,this being known only to God ?

It is the magisterium's doctrinal position which is irrational and contrary to common sense? SSPX please ask the Vatican spokesman if he actually knows any case of a non Catholic saved in invincible ignorance. Is there a visible baptism of desire?

If the pope does not know of any person saved in invincible ignorance and now in Heaven and when Vatican Council II does not make this claim of knowing in real life explicit cases  inHeaven, how can the magisterium reject the SSPX doctrinal position on other religions, ecumenism and dialogue?

Even though the SSPX rejects Vatican Council II (Jewish Left version) they should start talking with the Vatican in terms of Vatican Council II: ask the Vatican Curia to cite texts in Vatican Council II which contradict extra ecclesiam nulla salus ?

Also, how can the Secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith(CDF), Cardinal Luiz Ladaria S.J , as the former President of the International Theological Commission (ITC) reject the literal interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus, the Nicene Creed, Vatican Council II (AG 7) and still offer Holy Mass ?.This heresy can be viewed on the ITC’s website.

When the pope says in Light of the World (Ignatius) p.107 that all who are saved are saved through Jesus we must note it has two meanings.

1. All who are saved are saved through Jesus and the Church and this is our general Catholic belief, which we accept.There is no controversy here.

2. However the theological meaning is that all who are saved are saved either in invincible ignorance, a good conscience, and the baptism of desire etc or with Catholic Faith and the baptism of water.

Then the pope also says in Light of the Wolrd p.107 that there is only ‘one channel’ of salvation. he says there is only one way of salvation. implying the one mentioned  above.

This is false theologically since the one channel of salvation in the Catholic Church has always been through Jesus in the Catholic Church. We don’t know any case of a non Catholic saved invincible ignorance etc as the pope would wrongly assume.

When the pope makes an objective, factual error one can expect the rest of the Church to be confused or in error.

I ask Catholic priests these questions and they do not answer. Some say they do not know the answer and others say that they have not specialized in this or that.When I ask them if I can record their answer with my camera they say no.They will agree that one needs to proclaim the Faith and not be ashamed of it.-Lionel Andrades