Repost : Cardinal Kasper uses specious reasoning to further ecumenism and reject the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus : Fruits can be seen at the Amazon Synod

December 22, 2017

Cardinal Kasper uses specious reasoning to further ecumenism and reject the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus

by Cardinal Walter Kasper 

This strict identification of the church of Christ Jesus with the Catholic Church had been represented most recently in the encyclicals Mystici corporis (1943) and Humani generis (1950).

Lionel: Cardinal Walter Kasper acknowledges that the strict identification of the church of Jesus Christ only with the Catholic Church is there in Mystici Corporis etc.

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 But even according to Mystici corporis there are people who, although they have not yet been baptised, are subsumed under the Catholic Church because that is their express desire (DS 3921).

Lionel: Theoretically only! In reality there are no such people.

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 Therefore Pius XII had condemned an exclusive interpretation of the axiom “Extra ecclesiam nulla salus” already in 1949...[10]

Lionel: The Letter of the Holy See to the Archbishop of Boston (1949), in: DS 3866-73, made the mistake of assuming theoretical cases of the baptism of desire, baptism of blood and being saved in invincible ignorance were real and known people saved outside the Church and so were exceptions to Feeneyite extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS). This was irrational and non traditional. It was a new doctrine.

So how could an exclusivist,strict  interpretation of the dogma( not axiom) extra ecclesiam nulla salus be condemned, when there are no practical exceptions, past or present to it. No one could have seen someone saved outside the Church in the past with the baptism of water. No one can also see any one saved in the present times without the baptism of water in the Catholic Church.

So this is theological deception and Pope Benedict had gone along with it, instead of correcting the error.

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Thus the Council is aware that there are outside of the Catholic Church forms of sanctification which even extend as far as martyrdom (LG, 15; UR, 4; UUS, 12, 83).

Lionel: Theoretically - in real life however there are no known cases of some saved outside the Church, there are no known cases of martyrdom outside the Church,without the baptism of water in the Catholic Church.If there was it would only be known to God. Human beings within the Church can only speculate.




 One can speculate that St. Emerentiana or some other saint died with the baptism of blood but no one on earth can claim that it was without the baptism of water in the Catholic Church.

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 The question of the salvation of non-Catholics is now no longer answered personally as in Mystici corporis on the basis of the subjective desire of single individuals, but institutionally on the basis of objective ecclesiology...

Lionel: How can there be an objective ecclesiology when there are no objective cases of non Catholics saved outside the Catholic Church?

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The Council went a decisive step further with the aid of the “subsistit in”. It wished to do justice to the fact that there are found outside of the Catholic Church not only individual Christians but also “elements of the church”,

Lionel: How can there be found outside the Catholic Church individual Christians who are saved? If there were any such case it would be unknown to us and known only to God.

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 indeed churches and ecclesial communities which, although not in full communion, rightly belong to the one church and possess salvatory significance for their members (LG, 8, 15; UR, 3; UUS, 10-14). Thus the Council is aware that there are outside of the Catholic Church forms of sanctification which even extend as far as martyrdom (LG, 15; UR, 4; UUS, 12, 83). The question of the salvation of non-Catholics is now no longer answered personally as in Mystici corporis on the basis of the subjective desire of single individuals, but institutionally on the basis of objective ecclesiology.

Lionel: There is no objective case of a non Catholic saved outside the Church so there cannot be an objective exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS).

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The Catholic Church continues to claim, as it always has, to be the true church of Christ Jesus, in which the entire fullness of the means of salvation are present (UR, 3; UUS, 14), but it now sees itself in a context of dialogue with the other churches and ecclesial communities.

Lionel : The Catholic Church still teaches in Vatican Council II(Ad Gentes 7) that all need faith and baptism for salvation.So the Church still affirms the traditional exclusivist ecclesiology of the past, which was rejected by Cardinal Kasper and his friend Cardinal Ratzinger.

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 It does not propound any new doctrine but establishes a new outlook,

Lionel: Cardinal Kasper propounds a new doctrine.He is saying here, in a subtle way, that outside the Catholic Church there is known salvation and these persons are objective exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.This is false.He contradicts the Principle of Non Contradiction.

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 abandons triumphalism

Lionel: No it does not abandon the exclusivist ecclesiology of the past since there are no objective exceptions to it, past or present.So it has not abandoned what the Masons call 'triumphalism'.By rejecting triumphalism he is also saying that there can be inter-faith marriages which are not adultery and that non Catholics do not need to covert, since there is allegedly salvation outside the Church.

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 and formulates its traditional self-concept in a realistic, historically concrete – one could even say, humble – manner. -Cardinal Walter Kasper 1

1

III. “Subsistit in” – Expression of an Historically Concrete Ecclesiology

CONFERENCE ON THE 40th ANNIVERSARY OF THE PROMULGATION OF THE CONCILIAR DECREE "UNITATIS REDINTEGRATIO"

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/card-kasper-docs/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_20041111_kasper-ecumenism_en.html

[10] Letter of the Holy See to the Archbishop of Boston (1949), in: DS 3866-73.

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OCTOBER 26, 2015

Cardinal Kaspar changed ecclesiology assuming B is an exception to A : he used an irrational model to interpret Vatican Council II

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/10/cardinal-walter-kasper-said-in.html

The same false reasoning is there in the writings of Prof. Gavin D'Costa  a Catholic professor of theology at the University of Bristol, England.

1. On the University of Bristol video, Prof. Gavin D’Costa,a liberal Catholic professor of theology, assumed that ‘ a ray of Truth’ mentioned in Nostra Aetate 2 is explicit for us. So Nostra Aetate is considered an exception to the traditional teaching on salvation.

This is objectively wrong and is the same mistake made by the liberal Cardinal Walter Kasper in the text above.

2.In 2013 Bishop Fellay wrote the preface for the book written by the SSPX theologian Fr.Jean Marie Gleaze, Vaticano II- Un Dibattito Aperto (Editrice Ichthys). He recommended the book.

Fr.Jean Marie Glleize says in this book that in Mystici Corporis Pope Pius XII says ‘ in the exceptional way one can be saved outside the visible limits of the Catholic Church.’ How can there be an exceptional way to the dogmatic teaching? We do not know any explicit, visible case which could be an exception. If there are no known exceptions how can there be an exceptional way ?

Fr.Gleize is making the same error as the other priests and bishops of the SSPX in assuming that the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance, imperfect communion with the Church etc are visible exceptions. In faith we accept the baptism of desire as being implicit. It is a possibility. It is not an exception.It is hypothetical and not an exception to Feeneyite EENS.

Fr.Gleize is the professor of Ecclesiology at the SSPX seminary in Econe.It can be seen he is making the same error as Cardinal Kasper and Gavin D'Costa.
 
3.
The same reasoning is used by Massimo Faggioli to reject traditional documents of the Church. He assumes there is known salvation outside the Church and then reject the past exclusivist ecclesiology. So it is then a rejection of the past ecumenism of return and the Syllabus of Errors.

-Lionel Andrades

NOVEMBER 9, 2014

John Vennari, Cardinal Kaspar and so many others are misinterpreting these Church documents and then repeating the error in Vatican Council II

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/11/john-vennari-cardinal-kaspar-and-so.html

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2017/12/cardinal-kasper-uses-specious-reasoning.html