Wednesday, July 4, 2018

Repost : Foederatio Internationalis Una Voce official has nothing to say

MAY 28, 2014

Foederatio Internationalis Una Voce official has nothing to say

Dr. Joseph Shaw is the Chairman of the Latin Mass Society of England. He is the Treasurer of the International Federation Una Voce (FIUV) 1,recognized by the Holy See.He will not affirm the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus in accord with Vatican Council II (AG 7) and the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC 846).He will not affirm the dogma pe se. For him  Nostra Aetate 2 is possibly an explicit exception to the traditional interpretation of  Fr.Leonard Feeney and the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary. The  Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary are traditionalists,  registered with Una Voce.They affirm the traditional interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus. This is the interpretation of the  Church Councils, the popes,the saints and Fr.Leonard Feeney of Boston.
Dr.Joseph Shaw implies that Nostra Aetate 2 is an exception to the traditional teaching on salvation. He will not correct this error made by Mr. Gavin D'Costa, a Catholic  professor of theology at the University of Bristol. On a video shown on the websites of the University of Bristol and the Catholic Bishops Conference of England and Wales, D'Costa says that not all need to enter the Catholic Church for salvation. He is implying, that  he knows some people in England who do not need to convert into the Church with 'faith and baptism' (AG 7) for salvation. There is no correction from Joseph  Shaw. This is probably the official position of Una  Voce for those priests who offer the Traditional Latin Mass (TLM).
It may be mentioned that those saved with 'a ray of the Truth' (NA 2) are invisible for us. Vatican Council II is referring to a probability, something known only to God. The text of Vatican Council II does not state that these cases are explicit for us or  an exception to the dogma on exclusive salvation. Gavin D'Costa infers that these cases are explicit for us . This is heresy. It is a denial of an ex cathedra dogma which Pope Pius XII called an infallible teaching.(Letter of the Holy Office 1949).It is also a denial of Vatican Council II (AG 7) etc.
What is the position of Una Voce on extra ecclesiam nulla salus with reference to Vatican Council II ? Is Vatican Council II in agreement with the traditional interpretation of the dogma on exclusive salvation as held by hundreds of Catholic saints including the founders of religious communities affiliated with Una Voce ?
Joseph Shaw who is a lecturer at Oxford, will not answer on his blog LMS Chairman, TWO QUESTIONS  2 on the Catholic Faith. Also at conferences on Vatican Council II he does not state that the Council is in agreement with the dogma on salvation.So the Church's teaching on other religions and salvation has not changed after Vatican Council II. It is the traditional extra ecclesiam nulla salus with no exceptions.(NA 2, UR 3 etc being possibilities and not exceptions).
When James Bogle was elected the President of FIUV last year  he said ' young people are especially aware of the importance of rediscovering the Church’s roots. “It’s an enjoyable voyage of discovery. Moreover, if Catholics don’t understand their roots then it’s difficult for them to evangelize. When you attempt to evangelise, people will ask you ‘what are the roots of your belief and Church?’
If the answer is: ‘I don’t know, but I think you should join us’, that isn’t going to be terribly persuasive. Why should someone come to the faith if we can’t give a proper historical perspective to
our religion and what its roots are? Even people who aren’t particularly attracted to the traditional
rite of the Mass want to know about its history. It is not something that those seriously interested in
evangelisation can afford to ignore.” 3.
In the 'roots of the Church' ,from  the Church Fathers to the Fathers of Vatican Council II, there is an affirmation of the traditional interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus with no known exceptions.This has also been the position of the Society of St.Pius X (SSPX) in its General Chapter Statement of 2012. Is it also the position of FIUV ?
-Lionel Andrades

President: Mr. James Bogle, Email:
Secretary: Mr. Thomas Murphy, Email:
Treasurer: Dr. Joseph Shaw, Email:
1) Do we personally know the dead now saved in invincible ignorance, a good conscience (LG 16) etc, can we see them, are they physically visible to us in 2014 ? ANSWER: NO WE CANNOT SEE THEM, THEY ARE NOT VISIBLE TO US  or  YES WE CAN SEE THEM THEY ARE VISIBLLE TO US ON EARTH.
2) Since we do not known any of these in real life, they are not visible for us, there are no known exceptions to the literal interpreattion of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus or Ad  Genets 7 which states all need faith and baptism for salvation ?

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