Repost : Pastorally Our Lady at Medugorje is in step with the Church
JUNE 9, 2015
Pastorally Our Lady at Medugorje is in step with the Church
Church Militant Headline News has a report Ruling on Medugorje Near.
Church Militant TV interprets the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus with apparition theology, they do not intepret Vatican Council II without the Marchetti Error and then expect Our Lady to meet their standard on Catholic doctrine, which is difficult even for Pope Francis.
Medugorje is a pastoral apparition, doctrinally, Our Lady is ' in step with the Church'.-L.A
from the Church Militant.com website with comments. The Medjugorje Hoax
To demonstrate briefly by means of events and quotes that the apparitions at Medjugorje, because of their banality or lack of dignity, the containing of heresy in the messages, and their undermining of Church authority, are certainly false, and cannot have come from Our Lady and Heaven.
Banality or lack or dignity is not a criteria for rejecting the messages whether they be from Our Lady over 25 years or from a religious person.
1) Banality or Lack of Dignity.
According to the "Treatise on Mystical Theology," by Fr. Farges (1923), "Whereas the divine vision always conforms to the gravity and majesty of heavenly things, diabolical figures will infallibly have something unworthy of God, something ridiculous, extravagant, disorderly, or unreasonable about them."
Church Militant recently posted a report and picture of an African bishop who had a vision of Jesus regarding Boko Haram and praying the rosary. This was an approved apparition for CM.
_____________________ A) Thursday, June 25, 1981: "(The seer) Mirjana asked Our Lady to leave us a sign...and the hands of Mirjana's watch turned." (book of Fr. Yanko Bubalo, p.22-25)
There have been numerous such signs. At a personal level, it has strengthened the faith of the person who has received it. I know of a lady whose rosary beads turned gold.She told it to me herself.It was something personal and meaningful for her.
B) Saturday, June 27, 1981: The seers stated that the Virgin had disappeared several times because people had trod on her veil. (Bubalo, p.29-32)
C) Aug. 2, 1981: That evening during the apparition, those present followed one another in order to touch "the veil, the head, the hand, the dress" of the apparition. "At the end the Virgin seemed dirty, full of stains." (Bubalo, p.73-74)
D) Sept. 4, 1981: Seer Vicka in her diary writes: "We questioned her (the Virgin) about the man who saw Jesus in the street, when he was driving in his car. He met a man who was all bloodstained - this man was Jesus - who gave him a bloodstained handkerchief, telling him (the driver) to throw it in the river. Going on his way, he met a lady - it was the Blessed Virgin Mary; she asked the driver for the bloodstained handkerchief. The man gave a handerchief belonging to himself, but the Virgin asked for the bloodstained one. 'If he had not given it to me, it would have been the last judgment for all.' The Virgin said that that (event) was true. (report of Bishop Zanic, 1990, in whose diocese of Mostar, the apparition took place.) E) Autumn, 1981: Jakov asked the Virgin whether Dynamo, the soccer team from Zagreb, would win the title. This gave rise, during the apparition (in the supposed presence of Our Lady) to mad laughter on the part of the other seers. (Bubalo, p.154-157)
F) Sept. 8, 1981: Jakov shook hands with the Virgin. "Dear Holy Virgin, I wish you a happy birthday." ("The Virgin Mary is Appearing in Yugoslavia," by Fr. Marian Ljubic, p. 42)
G) August 5, 1985: Mirjana says that she has received from Heaven a white sheet on which the secrets will become legible in due time. But she won't show the sheet. (Report of Fr. Rene Laurentin)
H) "One day, as she (Mirjana) was waiting for the Virgin, she saw the light, and out of the light came the devil, disguised in the features and clothes of Mary, but he had a dark, hideous face...After a while, the Holy Virgin came and said to her: 'I am sorry about that...'" ("Yugoslavia and the BVM" by Tequi)
(...who is really appearing there?)
2) An Apparition Teaching Error and Heresy
A) Fr. Tomislav Vlasic: "Do you feel the Virgin as she who gives graces (which is the traditional Catholic doctrine of Mary, the Mediatrix of All Graces) or as she who prays to God? (true also, but in conformity with some Protestant theology and not the fulness of Catholic teaching.) Vicka: "As she who prays to God." ("Is the Virgin Mary Appearing at Medjugorje? by Fr. Rene Laurentin, 1984, p.135-136, 154) B) The Virgin was accustomed to reciting the Our father with the seers. (But how could Our Lady say: "Forgive us our trespasses," since she has none? At Lourdes, Our Lady was careful to keep her lips closed during all the Paters and Aves, reciting only the Gloria Patris.)
C) Mirjana: "I recently asked the Virgin this question (whether many souls are damned), and she told me that nowadays most souls go to Purgatory." (book by Fr. Faricy, p. 64)
(...a comforting thought, perhaps, but opposite to the teaching of Fatima, St. Louis de Montfort, Pope Gregory the Great, St. Alphonsus, St. Anthony Claret, St. Augustine, etc., etc.)
Even Church Militant.com's position on extra ecclesiam nulla salus is different from the saints.
Christine Niles cited being saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire as an exception to the defined dogma which she also quoted on the Mic'd Up program on extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
Similarly Michael Voris keeps repeating that outtside the Church there is no salvation and then also says every one does not need to be a card carrying member of the Church.He runs with the hares and hunts with the hounds.
He cites liberal theology from the Catechism which contradicts the dogma according to the saints quoted here.
This is heresy. He is using fantasy theology without knowing it. It is also the official heresy/ teaching of the contemporary magisterium. We'll need another apparition to get this message across, since Michael is not going to say it.
Is Pope Francis and the Vatican following the teachings of the saints ? Has Church Militant. com ever commented on this?
D) Oct. 1, 1981: "All religions are equal before God," says the Virgin. (Chronological Corpus of Medjugorje, p. 317)
I spoke to Fr.Slavko Barbaric OFM who was the spiritual director of the seers.He denied that Our Lady said this.
E) The Virgin: "I do not dispose of all graces...Jesus prefers that you address your petitions directly to him, rather than through an intermediary." (Chron. Corp. p.181, 277-278)
F) "In God there are no divisions or religions; it is you in the world who have created divisions." (Faricy, p.51)
G) "God directs all denominations as a king directs his subjects, through the medium of his ministers" ("The Apparitions at Medjugorje," by Fr. Svat Kraljevic, 1984, p.58) Lionel:
This is a new one for me too. There are so many reports attributed to Medugorje.
Initially it was said that Our Lady told Marija to read The Poem of the Man God to have an account of her life as a child. Now the Medugorje spokesman denies this. This book by Maria Valtorta affirms the rigorist interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. This would not be acceptable to the Franciscans at Medugorje and neither for Cardinal Ruini at the Vatican, whom Pope Benedict asked to review the apparitions.Many statements are attributed to Our Lady at Medugorje.
H) "Each one's religion must be respected, and you must preserve yours for yourselves and for your children." (Kraljevic, p.68)
I) "The Virgin added: 'It is you who are divided on this earth. The Muslims and the Orthodox, like the Catholics, are equal before my Son and before me, for you are all my children." (Fr. Ljubic, p.71) Lionel:
Sound theology. We are all children of God. Salvation is open to all in potential. Jesus died for all in potential.
Those who have accepted Jesus in the Catholic Church can claim their inheritance of salvation.
No one is condemned while he is alive on earth. Salvation is still available in potential if the person responds.
(...unbaptized Muslims equal to the baptized, who by this fact are the adopted children of God?)
This is the Church Militant and the traditionalists intepretation.
CM and the traditionalists, also infer that there are known exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus mentioned in Vatican Council II !! This is the visible-dead theory. It is another type of apparitions which they still have not claimed is false.This is the appartion theology used by the liberals and traditionalists in the Catholic Church. The Church Authority which is to judge Medugorje, approves of it.
3) The Undermining of Church Authority
A) June 21, 1983: The Virgin states: "Tell the Father Bishop (Zanic) that I request his urgent conversion to the events of the Medjugorje parish...I am sending him the penultimate warning. If he is not converted, or will not be converted, my judgment as well as that of my Son Jesus will strike him." (Seer Ivanka writing to Bishop Zanic)
B) Dec. 26, 1983: ...But the Virgin takes the side of the chief propagandist for Medjugorje: "Our Lady prays for this work (i.e., the writings of Fr. Rene Laurentin.) May he who undertakes it do so in prayer, which is where he will find his inspiration." (Laurentin, p.105-111)
C) August 1, 1984: The Virgin says: "Make the priests read the Abbe Laurentin's book and spread it." (A Franciscan from Belgrade received this reply, when he had the seers bring up the matter to the Virgin.)
D) From August, 1984, to April, 1985, the apparitions continued to take place in the parish church despite the Bishop of Mostar's former prohibition. (A certain sign of a false apparition, when Church authority is disobeyed by the apparition itself.) Lionel:
The bishop himself was not obeying the authorities in the Vatican. They had over ruled him. He continued in opposition.
E) Jan. 1982: The Virgin states that two Franciscan priests, removed from their order and under suspension by the bishop,
The bishop initially supported the Medugorje apparitions until this question was asked about the two priests suspended by the bishops.He then began to oppose the apparitions. He continued even after the Vatican supported the apparitions and did not have them banned.
one of whom later fathered a child by a nun, may continue to say Mass and hear Confessions.
Nothing of this happened at the time when Our Lady commented on the two Franciscan priests.
Since then private questions are asked of Our Lady and her comments are kept private.
Vicka the seer is asked "If the Lady said this, and the Pope says that they cannot..." Vicka answers: "The Pope can say what he wants. I'm telling it as it is." (from Bishop Zanic's document, 1990)
(...obedience to an apparition greater than obedience to the Pope?)
The seers have been obedient to the popes so far.
Was Cardinal Bergoglio obedient to his pope?
Is he obedient to the teachings of the Church today ? Has Church Militant .com ever commented on this ?
Medjugorje ignores the great hope of Fatima: the consecration of Russia and its conversion, followed by peace, with the triumph of the Immaculate Heart.
Medugorje has been succcesful as a pastoral Council.
Dec. 8, 1984: Fr. Gobbi, founder of the Marian Movement of Priests, receives a locution from "Mary," informing him that she has been appearing at Medjugorje.
Therefore, if Medjugorje is a fraud, so are Fr. Gobbi and his locutions.
Medugorje is not a fraud and nor is Fr. Stefano Gobbi just as much as Church Militant is not a fraud,even though they deny the salvation dogma inferring there are h alleged exceptions. They also interpret Vatican Council II with the Marchetti irrationality.
Finally, Medjugorje has heavy overtones of Charismaticism, a movement which infiltrated the Church from Protestantism in the late 1960's;
It has not been condemned by the Church.However it is usually condemned on Church Militant.com.
Medjugorje is still in progress, as of this writing (1999), its length resembling the nonsense apparitions of Bayside, NY, and Necedah, Wisc. rather than the succinctness of Fatima or Lourdes.
A reminder to all:
The official Church teaching concerning private revelation is explained by Pope Benedict XIV (18th century.):
"[The Church] simply permits them [private revelations] to be published for the instruction and the edification of the faithful. The assent to be given to them is not therefore an act of Catholic Faith but of human faith, based upon the fact that these revelations are probable and worthy of credence.
So far the Church has not condemned Medugorje as has Church Militant and Catholic traditionalists who interpret Vatican Council II with irrational Marchetiism instead of traditional and rational Feeneyism. This is apparition theology.Priests have to affirm it to remain incardinated.
"St. John of the Cross asserts that the desire for revelations deprives faith of its purity, develops a dangerous curiosity that becomes a source of illusions, fills the mind with vain fancies, and often proves the want of humility, and of submission to Our Lord, Who, through His public revelation, has given all that is needed for salvation.
The new revelation in the Church, accepted by Church Militant and Catholics at large is that being saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire refer to known cases in the present times. They are allegedly visible on earth and so are defacto exceptions to the Feeneyite version of the dogma.
This is the new revelation , the new ecclesiology accepted by Michael Voris and the Staff at Church Militant. For the Archdiocese of Detroit, it is an obligatory teaching, which Church Militant has to follow to remain Catholic in the diocese.
"We must suspect those apparitions that lack dignity or proper reserve, and above all, those that are ridiculous. This last charcteristic is a mark of human or diabolical machination."
Dignity, reserve, ridioculousness are personal judgements. If Our Lady chooses to appear as she does,who are we to criticize it,if it does not fit into some category we find comfortable.