This is the NEW DISCOVERY today. Invisible cases of LG 16 etc do not contradict Tradition. It is new for the main line Church and the traditionalists.

 

All this is a New Discovery in the Catholic Church even though I really am not saying anything new. It is new, since it was unknown in 1965. But the reasoning existed before 1965.

Before 1949 they did not project the baptism of desire as being a physically visible case. This was common sense. It always referred to an invisible person. So when the popes over history mention the strict interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and also the baptism of desire, there is no contradiction.

But this is the NEW DISCOVERY today. Invisible cases of LG 16 etc do not contradict Tradition. It is new for the main line Church and the traditionalists. –Lionel Andrades

Archbishop Vigano has to ask Pope Francis to accept Vatican Council II and then he too will accept the pope. Ethically, the pope has only one choice, the rational option, which is traditional.

 

When LG 8 etc refer to invisible cases in 1965-2024 there are no exceptions in the Council-text for the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS).So Ad Gentes 7 and Lumen Gentium 14 support the traditional teaching on outside the Church there is no salvation, in in harmony with the Catechism of the Catholic Church(845,846).So the Council is traditional.

Morally, this rational interpretation is the only option all Catholics have. 

When Cardinal Victor Manuel Fernandez mentions schism and excommunication for not accepting Vatican Council II ( irrational)  and Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano sedevacantism ( since he cannot accept Vatican Council II, irrational), they both are in ignorance. They interpret the Council irrationally and are unaware of it.

Archbishop Vigano has to ask Pope Francis to accept Vatican Council II and then he too will accept the pope. Ethically, the pope has only one choice, the rational option, which is traditional.  - Lionel Andrades

When we have Vatican Council II affirming traditional extra ecclesiam nulla sallus (EENS) then the ecclesiology of the Catholic Church has not changed. There is no change in faith, morals and mission.

 

When we have Vatican Council II affirming traditional extra ecclesiam nulla sallus (EENS) then the ecclesiology of the Catholic Church has not changed. There is no change in faith, morals and mission. Mission is ecclesiocentric and not only Christocentric and ecumenical. We are back to the EENS of the missionaries and Magisterium of the 16^th century. The Council has changed before our very eyes. We are back to the moral theology of St. Alfonso Liguori.   - Lionel Andrades

Who cares what Rahner-Ratzinger-Bea and the others did – we simply see LG 8 etc as being hypothetical cases and the Council is traditional today.

 

The troubles of the bad interpretation of Vatican Council II is a thing of the past. We simply interpret LG 8, 14,15,16,UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc in Vatican Council II as being invisible cases in 2024 and we return to the past ecclesiocentrism and the rest of Tradition. Who cares what Rahner-Ratzinger-Bea and the others did – we simply see LG 8 etc as being hypothetical cases and the Council is traditional today.- Lionel Andrades

John Henry Westen and Fr. Jeff Fasching have not mentioned Vatican Council II when they refer to the dogma outside the Church there is no salvation. It is Vatican Council II (AG 7, LG 14) which says outside the Church there is no salvation, while hypothetical cases of LG 8, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc do not contradict AG 7 and LG 14.

 

John Henry Westen and Fr. Jeff Fasching have not mentioned Vatican Council II when they refer to the dogma outside the Church there is no salvation. It is Vatican Council II (AG 7, LG 14) which says outside the Church there is no salvation, while hypothetical cases of LG 8, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc do not contradict AG 7 and LG 14.

It is the Catechism of the Catholic Church (845,846) which states outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation.

Ad Gentes 7 says all need faith and baptism for salvation. All. In other words all need Catholic faith and the baptism of water to avoid Hell. In other words in Heaven there are only Catholics. They are there with Catholic faith and the baptism of water and without mortal sin on their soul.

Being saved in invincible ignorance (I.I) and the baptism of desire(BOD) are invisible cases in 2024. So I.I and BOD must not be projected as exceptions for the dogma EENS. The 1949 Letter of the Holy Office to the Archbishop of Boston made an objective mistake. It projected invisble cases of BOD and I.I as being exceptions for traditional EENS.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church 847-848 (invincible ignorance) does not contradict CCC 845-846 (outside the Church there is no salvation). 

CCC 1257 (The Necessity of Baptism) says the baptism of water is necessary for salvation. If someone is saved because ‘God is not limited to the Sacraments’ (CCC 1257) it would be a hypothetical case only. So this is not an exceptions for all need the baptism of water for salvation. The baptism of water is given to adults with the Catholic faith.

This is interpreting Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church rationally.

Anyone who interprets Vatican Council II rationally would be saying outside the Church there is no salvation.

This is what the bishops need to know.

Yes, Fr. Fasching is correct that in Heaven there is only one religion. This is what Vatican Council II says (AG 7).

Jesus died for all but to receive this salvation all need to enter the Catholic Church (Dominus Iesus). So all Protestants are outside the Church. In general all Protestants and Orthodox Christians are oriented to Hell unless they enter the Catholic Church (Council of Florence 1441, AG 7, CCC 845,846 etc). If any Protestant is in Heaven he would be a Catholic. Any exception  would only be known to God. So Unitatis Redintigratio 3 is not an exception for the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, the Catechism of the Catholic Church 845,846 and Vatican Council II (AG 7).

So all Protestants and other non Catholics need to enter the Catholic Church, in general, for salvation? Yes. This is the teaching of the Conciliar Church interpreted rationally.

1.The Bible tells us in John 3:5. Mark 16:16 that  outside the Church there is no salvation. This is how it was interpreted over the centuries.

2.Vatican Council II says outside the Church there is no salvation (A G 7 etc)

3.The Catechism of the Catholic Church 845,846 says outside the Church there is no salvation.

4.The dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus has been defined by three Church Councils.

Knowing this is important when there is political pressure to not preach exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church. This is when they say that this is a teaching of the past now contradicted by Vatican Council II. They mean Vatican Council II interpreted only irrationally.

Bishop Robert Barron interprets Vatican Council II irrationally and so there are exceptions in the Council-text for the dogma EENS. So he could not tell Ben Shapiro that all Jews in general need to enter the Catholic Church for salvation. When invisble cases of LG 16 etc are not confused as being visible examples of salvation outside the Catholic Church, then the Concliar Church today is saying that all Muslims in general ore oriented to Hell without Catholic faith and the baptism of water. This would not be the teaching of a priest only but the Magisterial teaching of the Catholic Church according to Magisterial Documents ( Vatican Council II, Creeds etc) interpreted rationally. This is the official teaching of the Church in harmony with John 6 ( all need the Eucharist for salvation) and in harmony with the missionaries and Magisterium of the 16th century.

So Candace Owens is also probably interpreting Vatican Council II irrationally and so she did not say that the Council says outside the Church there is no salvation. It is because it is necessry to be a Catholic to avoid Hell the Church and State must not be separated and the Social Reign of Christ the King in all political legislation must be proclaimed.This was the traditional teaching of the Catholic Church, now no more contradicted by Vatican Council II, irrational.

-Lionel Andrades

THIS holy priest was canceled for doing exactly what priests MUST do

https://www.lifesitenews.com/episodes/this-holy-priest-was-canceled-for-doing-exactly-what-priests-must-do/?utm_source=most_recent&utm_campaign=canada

If Archbishop Vigano is excommunicated it will be due to ignorance. Instead he should affirm Vatican Council II (rational) and Tradition and ask Pope Francis to do the same for him to be accepted as a valid pope. Pope Francis must accept Vatican Council II. The responsibility lies him

 

Archbishop Vigano is building a new seminary. The seminarians must be taught to interpret Vatican Council II only rationally. They do not have to ‘scrap’ the Council. Only Vatican Council II irrational has to be rejected.

Those who continue to interpret the Council irrationally will be in schism. They no more can support their liberalism in faith and morals, in the name of Vatican Council I (rational).

People over time will learn the truth.

If Archbishop Vigano is excommunicated it will be due to ignorance. Instead he should affirm Vatican Council II (rational) and Tradition and ask Pope Francis to do the same for him to be accepted as a valid pope. Pope Francis must accept Vatican Council II. The responsibility lies him.  - Lionel Andrades

Archbishop Vigano has accused Pope Francis of schism and heresy. But Pope Francis could say the same and he would be correct

 

                                                        -Lionel Andrades

As the deer pants for the water - Robin Mark

I am not saying anything new, in the sense, I am not putting forward a new theology or new theory. I am only pointing out that anyone who interprets LG 8, 14, 15,16,UR 3,NA 2, GS 22 etc as being only invisible and hypothetical cases, goes back to the past exclusivist ecclesiology. The Church, so to speak returns to Tradition. This is automatic and immediate.

 

 APRIL 12, 2024

I am not saying anything new, in the sense, I am not putting forward a new theology or new theory. I am only pointing out that anyone who interprets LG 8, 14, 15,16,UR 3,NA 2, GS 22 etc as being only invisible and hypothetical cases, goes back to the past exclusivist ecclesiology. The Church, so to speak returns to Tradition. This is automatic and immediate.

I am affirming the traditional teachings of the Catholic Church according to Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church interpreted rationally i.e. LG 8,14,1,5,16,UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc, refer to hypothetical cases only.

So they are not objective exceptions for the ecclesiocentrism of the Catholic Church; the Church having exclusive salvation. Meanwhile Ad Gentes 7 in Vatican Council II says all need faith and baptism for salvation. This was the same message of the Church Councils, which defined extra ecclesiam nulla salus ; the Feeneyite version, which did not mention any exceptions.

So for me de facto all non Catholics need to enter the Catholic Church for salvation. I do not separate Jesus from the Catholic Church, His Mystical Body, the Bible tells us.

Hypothetically and with good will I can hope there are exceptions for the dogma EENS, someone saved 'in imperfect communion with the Church' or 'with elements of sanctification and truth' found outside the Church, but I could not know of any exceptions. Neither can you know. So there really are not practical exceptions for the dogma EENS mentioned in Vatican Council II.This is the understanding of everyone, including non Christians.

The 1949 Letter of the Holy Office to the Archbishop of Boston made a mistake when it projected invisible cases of the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance, as being visible exceptions for Feeneyite EENS. The same mistake was made by Fr. Karl Rahner sj and Fr. Joseph Ratzinger at Vatican Council II and probably ‘the Rhine Group’.

So it is important to note that I am affirming Magisterial Documents ( Creeds, Councils, Catechisms etc) but I am interpreting them rationally i.e. invisible cases are always invisible, Lumen Gentium 16 for example, refers to an invisible person in 1965-2024.

This would be the traditional understanding of the dogma EENS when Vatican Council II is interpreted rationally by the Auxiliary Bishops of Rome and the Vicar General. They would be saying the same thing as me. They have an obligation to interpret Magisterial Documents only ethically. 

This would be the rational interpretation of Vatican Council II by my Parish Priest who would then have to affirm the dogma EENS. The Missionaries of Charity priests of Mother Teresa would reach the same conclusion when they interpret LG 8, 14, 1,5 16 etc rationally i.e. these are invisible cases in 2024, they are not visible exceptions for the dogma EENS.

So I am not saying anything new, in the sense, I am not putting forward a new theology or new theory. I am only pointing out that anyone who interprets LG 8, 14, 15,16,UR 3,NA 2, GS 22 etc  as being only invisible and hypothetical cases, goes back to the past exclusivist ecclesiology. The Church, so to speak returns to Tradition. This is automatic and immediate.

- Lionel Andrades

Cardinal Victor Manuel Fernandez wants the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary in New Hampshire to choose a fake premise.

 

 MAY 4, 2024

Cardinal Victor Manuel Fernandez wants the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary in New Hampshire to choose a fake premise.

 

- Lionel Andrades

MAY 3, 2024

Bishop Peter Libasci must interpret Church Documents as do the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary at the St.Benedict Center New Hampshire,USA

 

JUNE 17, 2020

                                                                                                                                                                        -Lionel Andrades

 MAY 2, 2024

The only Catholic religious community in the world which interprets Vatican Council II rationally and honestly

 

                              

-    Lionel Andrades

https://catholicism.org/

https://catholicism.org/the-brothers

When Pope Paul VI interpreted Vatican Council II irrationally thousands of priests and nuns left the new liberal Catholic Church. When Pope Francis will interpret Vatican Council II rationally…?

 

When Pope Paul VI interpreted Vatican Council II irrationally thousands of priests and nuns left the new liberal Catholic Church.

When Pope Francis will interpret Vatican Council II rationally…?  - Lionel Andrades

JUNE 15, 2024

President Joe Biden, a Catholic, interprets Vatican Council II irrationally and unethically.There is no denial from the United States State Department and the U.S embassy in Rome. They agree with me.

 

President Joe Biden, a Catholic, interprets Vatican Council II irrationally and unethically. He chooses a false premise and inference. In this way the conclusion is nontraditional and liberal. We now know that LG 8, 14, 15, 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc 1 in Vatican Council II can only be hypothetical cases in 2024. So there is no denial from the United States State Department and the U.S embassy in Rome. They agree with me. The President of the United States is unethical in his interpretation of Vatican Council II, the Catechism of the Catholic Church and the Creeds and Councils. He is faking it.

The American president is choosing to confuse LG 8, 14, 15, 16, UR 3, NA 2, and GS 22 etc as being physically visible examples of salvation outside the Catholic Church in 1965-2024. Then it is wrongly concluded that Vatican Council II has exceptions for the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus of three Church Councils which defined it. Exceptioins are also projected for the the ecclesiocentrism of the Athanasius Creed and the Syllabus of Errors of Pope Pius IX ( ecumenism of return to the Catholic Church).

Also the Chief Rabbinate of Israel and the ADL has to correct their interpretation of Vatican Council II.

President Biden supports a dishonest interpretation of Vatican Council II etc, which can be verified objectively. This is a secular issue.

Cardinals Fernandez, Zuppi and Gambetti agree with me in Rome that there are no physically visible cases of LG 8, 14, 15, 16, UR 3, NA 2, and GS 22 etc, as referred to in Vatican Council II. In practical life we cannot see or meet anyone saved in invincible ignorance or the baptism of desire. So Vatican Council II does not have any practical exception for the dogma outside the Church there is no salvation, as held by the Apostles and the Magisterium in the Middle Ages.

The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) must clarify for the president that LG 8 etc refer to invisible cases in 1949-2024. The Letter of the Holy Office 1949 to the Archbishop of Boston made an objective mistake. It confused invisible cases of being saved with the baptism of desire as being visible exceptions for traditional extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS) ; Feeneyite EENS.

If President Biden would affirm Vatican Council II interpreted rationally i.e LG 8 etc, refer to invisible cases in 2024, he would be affirming the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, with no known exceptions. He would be saying that all need Catholic faith and the baptism of water for salvation ( Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II).

Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door.-Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II.

This Sacred Council wishes to turn its attention firstly to the Catholic faithful. Basing itself upon Sacred Scripture and Tradition, it teaches that the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation. Christ, present to us in His Body, which is the Church, is the one Mediator and the unique way of salvation. In explicit terms He Himself affirmed the necessity of faith and baptism (124) and thereby affirmed also the necessity of the Church, for through baptism as through a door men enter the Church.-Lumen Gentium 14, Vatican Council II.

- Lionel Andrades

1 

THESE ARE REFERENCES TO INVISIBE CASES IN 2023. THEY ARE NOT VISIBLE EXAMPLES OF SALVATION OUTSIDE THE CHURCH. THEY ARE NOT OBJECTIVE EXCEPTIONS FOR THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS, THE ATHANASIUS CREED AND THE SYLLABUS OF ERRORS OF POPE PIUS IX.

This Church constituted and organized in the world as a society, subsists in the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him,(13*) although many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside of its visible structure. These elements, as gifts belonging to the Church of Christ, are forces impelling toward catholic unity.- Lumen Gentium 8, Vatican Council II

 

Catechumens who, moved by the Holy Spirit, seek with explicit intention to be incorporated into the Church are by that very intention joined with her. With love and solicitude Mother Church already embraces them as her own. - Lumen Gentium 14, Vatican Council II

 

But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator… Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience.- Lumen Gentium 16, Vatican Council II.

 

Moreover, some and even very many of the significant elements and endowments which together go to build up and give life to the Church itself, can exist outside the visible boundaries of the Catholic Church: the written word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, and visible elements too. All of these, which come from Christ and lead back to Christ, belong by right to the one Church of Christ.

The brethren divided from us also use many liturgical actions of the Christian religion. These most certainly can truly engender a life of grace in ways that vary according to the condition of each Church or Community. These liturgical actions must be regarded as capable of giving access to the community of salvation. – Unitatis Redintigratio 3 Vatican Council II

The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men. – Nostra Aetate 2, Vatican Council II.

All this holds true not only for Christians, but for all men of good will in whose hearts grace works in an unseen way. For, since Christ died for all men,(32) and since the ultimate vocation of man is in fact one, and divine, we ought to believe that the Holy Spirit in a manner known only to God offers to every man the possibility of being associated with this paschal mystery.- Gaudium et Specs 22, Vatican Council II

______________________________

JUNE 14, 2024

The United States State Department must clarify that LG 8,14,15,16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc in Vatican Council II refer to hypothetical cases only. They are not physically visible cases in 1965-2024 for President Biden.

 

The United States State Department must clarify that LG 8,14,15,16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc in Vatican Council II refer to hypothetical cases only. They are not physically visible cases in 1965-2024 for President Biden.

-Lionel Andrades

JUNE 13, 2024

Pope Francis and Joe Biden are interpreting Vatican Council II irrationally and dishonestly

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2024/06/pope-francis-and-joe-biden-are.html

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2024/06/the-united-states-state-department-must.html

__________________________________________________

JANUARY 26, 2018

_________________________

_________________________________

When an irrational premise is used I refer to it as Cushingism.

When there is a rational premise, I refer to it as Feeneyism.Lionel Andrades

                                                                        CUSHINGISM

FEENEYEISM

________________________________

PRESIDENT BIDEN CHOOSES THE IRRATIONAL RIGHT HAND SIDE COLUMN

_________________________________

 Lionel Andrades

Catholic lay man in Rome. Writer on the discovery of the two interpretations of Vatican Council II, one is rational and the other is irrational, one is interpreted with the false premise and the other without it. One is Magisterial and the other, the common one, is non Magisterial.How can the Holy Spirit make an objective mistake ? So it is human error and not the Magisterium.

 Vatican Council II is dogmatic and not only pastoral.

It is the same for the Creeds and Catechisms. There can be two interpretations.Catholics must choose the rational option.

Why should Catholics choose an irrational version which is heretical, nontraditional and schismatic, when a rational option is there which is traditional?

Blog: Eucharist and Mission (eucharistandmission)

E-mail: lionelandrades10@gmail.com

Twitter : @LionelAndrades1

___________________

 

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2024/06/president-joe-biden-catholic-interprets.html