Monday, September 9, 2024
I accept Nostra Aetate 2, Lumen Gentium 16 etc as hypothetical cases. They cannot be objective persons, seen in the flesh. So they never were exceptions for the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus , the Athanasius Creed and the Syllabus of Errors, for me. Vatican Council II for me, has a continuity with the past ecclesiocentrism. It is not a rupture.
A
few days back a young religious from Ghana told me that Nostra Aetate 2 says that there is
salvation outside the Church. So he asked how could I say outside the Church
there is no salvation.
The Catholic Church rejects
nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with
sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and
teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and
sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all
men. – Nostra Aetate 2, Vatican Council II.
‘often reflect a ray of truth
which enlightens all men’ –Nostra Aetate 2
But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator… Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience - Lumen Gentium 16
We humans cannot see someone saved outside the Catholic Church, with good will (Gaudium et Specs 22, Vatican Council II).We cannot meet or see someone saved with that ‘ray of truth which enlightes all men’(NA 2). Since this can only be known to God. So Gaudium et Specs 22 refers to an invisible person in 2024. Lumen Gentium 16 also refers to an invisible person in 1965-2024. 1
So when this young religious projects Nostra Aetate 2 as an
exception for Ad Gentes 7 which says all need faith and baptism for salvation,
then he implies that Nostra Aetate 2 refers to a visible case. It refers to someone
known in the present times who is saved outside the Catholic Church. Since an invisible
person cannot be an objective exception for Ad Gentes 7, which says all need
faith and baptism. Someone has to be present;he or she has to be there to be an
exception. A subjective case, a theoretical case cannot be an objective exception
for the Catechism of the Catholic Church when it says the Church is like the
only Ark of Noah which saves in the Flood. God the Father wants all people to
be united in the Catholic Church (CCC 845), outside the Church there is no
salvation ( CCC 846).
I accept Nostra Aetate 2, Lumen Gentium 16 etc
as hypothetical cases. They cannot be objective persons, seen in the flesh. So
they never were exceptions for the dogma extra
ecclesiam nulla salus , the Athanasius Creed and the Syllabus of Errors,
for me. Vatican Council II for me, has a continuity with the past
ecclesiocentrism. It is not a rupture.- Lionel Andrades
THESE ARE REFERENCES TO INVISIBE CASES IN 2023. THEY ARE NOT VISIBLE
EXAMPLES OF SALVATION OUTSIDE THE CHURCH. THEY ARE NOT OBJECTIVE
EXCEPTIONS FOR THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS, THE ATHANASIUS CREED AND
THE SYLLABUS OF ERRORS OF POPE PIUS IX.
This Church constituted and
organized in the world as a society, subsists in the Catholic Church, which is
governed by the successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with
him,(13*) although many elements of sanctification and of truth are
found outside of its visible structure. These elements, as gifts
belonging to the Church of Christ, are forces impelling toward catholic unity.- Lumen Gentium 8, Vatican
Council II
Catechumens who, moved by the
Holy Spirit, seek with explicit intention to be incorporated into the Church
are by that very intention joined with her. With love and solicitude
Mother Church already embraces them as her own. - Lumen Gentium 14,
Vatican Council II
But the plan of salvation also
includes those who acknowledge the Creator… Those also can attain to
salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or
His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to
do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience.-
Lumen Gentium 16, Vatican Council II.
Moreover, some and even very
many of the significant elements and endowments which together go to build up
and give life to the Church itself, can exist outside the visible boundaries of
the Catholic Church: the written word of God; the life of grace; faith,
hope and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, and visible
elements too. All of these, which come from Christ and lead back to Christ,
belong by right to the one Church of Christ.
The brethren divided from us
also use many liturgical actions of the Christian religion. These most
certainly can truly engender a life of grace in ways that vary according to the
condition of each Church or Community. These liturgical actions must be
regarded as capable of giving access to the community of salvation. –
Unitatis Redintigratio 3 Vatican Council II
The Catholic Church rejects
nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with
sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and
teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and
sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all
men. – Nostra Aetate 2, Vatican Council II.
All this holds true not only
for Christians, but for all men of good will in whose hearts grace works in an
unseen way. For, since Christ died for all men,(32) and since the ultimate
vocation of man is in fact one, and divine, we ought to believe that the Holy
Spirit in a manner known only to God offers to every man the possibility of
being associated with this paschal mystery.- Gaudium et Specs 22, Vatican Council II
______________________________
_________________________
When an irrational premise is used I refer to it as Cushingism.
When there is a rational premise, I refer to it as Feeneyism.Lionel Andrades
CUSHINGISM
_________________________________
Lionel Andrades
Catholic lay man in Rome. Writer on the discovery of the two interpretations of Vatican Council II, one is rational and the other is irrational, one is interpreted with the false premise and the other without it. One is Magisterial and the other, the common one, is non Magisterial.How can the Holy Spirit make an objective mistake ? So it is human error and not the Magisterium.
Vatican Council II is dogmatic and not only pastoral.
It is the same for the Creeds and Catechisms. There can be two interpretations.Catholics must choose the rational option.
Why should Catholics choose an irrational version which is heretical, nontraditional and schismatic, when a rational option is there which is traditional?
Blog: Eucharist and Mission (eucharistandmission)
E-mail: lionelandrades10@gmail.com
Twitter : @LionelAndrades1
___________________
https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2024/06/president-joe-biden-catholic-interprets.html
Eucharistic Adoration at Medugorje - 7/9/2024
So when I say that In Heaven there are only Catholics I am following the Magisterial teachings of the Catholic Church, over centuries, now supported by Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church interpreted with only a rational premise
When I say ‘In Heaven there are only Catholics’ my citations are Ad Gentes 7, Lumen Gentium 14, Catechism of the Catholic Church 845,846 etc. While for me Nostra Aetate 2 and Lumen Gentium 16 refer to hypothetical cases. They can only be invisible cases in 1949. Since if anyone was saved outside the Church, without faith and the baptism of water, it can only be known to God. We do not know any particular person saved as such.So the baptism of desire (LG 14) does not contradict the strict interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. Being saved in invincible ignorance does not contradict Ad Gentes 7 which says all need faith and baptism for salvation. There is nothing in Nostra Aetate to contradict the Athanasius Creed which says all need to be Catholic for salvation.
So salvation is open for all in general, Jesus died for all but to receive this salvation all need to accept Jesus in the Catholic Church and live the teachings of the only Church Jesus founded, and which the Bible refers to, as His Mystical Body.
So these two concepts must be understood. That salvation is universal and the Catholic Church is necessary for salvation ( Dominus Iesus 20).
A Catholic is someone who has been baptised with water and holds the Catholic faith.This is the Magisterial teaching of the Church. The reference is there in the Catechisms.
We do not know any Catholic who will be saved in invincible ignorance etc and without 'faith and baptism'(AG 7).
As
I have mentioned earlier, on the blog 1Peter
5. The pro-SSPX writers are all interpreting the Catechisms with an
irrational premise( invisible people are visble in 2024) while I choose a rational premise ( invisible people are invisible in 2024). Then they say, like the
liberals that the Council is a break with Tradition.It is a break with the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus as ity was known to the missionaries in the 16th century, for example. They blame Vatican Council
II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church and not their irrational premise (invisible
cases of LG 8, NA 2 etc are visible).
So when I say that In Heaven there are only Catholics I am following the Magisterial teachings of the Catholic Church, over centuries, now supported by Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church interpreted with only a rational premise.- Lionel Andrades
On the blog 1Peter 5. The pro-SSPX writers interpret the Catechisms with an irrational premise while I choose a rational premise. Then they say like the liberals that the Council is a break with Tradition.
On
the blog 1Peter 5. The pro-SSPX writers interpret the Catechisms
with an irrational premise while I choose a rational premise. Then they say
like the liberals that the Council is a break with Tradition. They blame
Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church and not their
irrational premise (invisible cases of Lumen Gentium 8,16 etc and Nostra Aetate 2 which say there is salvation outside the Church, are physically visible). For me LG 8,16,NA 2 etc can only be hypothetical. They are known only to God. We humans cannot say that we know of someone who has gone to Heaven, without the baptism of water and Catholic faith but by only following the dictates of his conscience(LG 16). The norm for salvation is faith and baptism .It is not the baptism of desire or being saved in invincible ignorance.-Lionel Andrades
Posts
