At Fatima, Portugal, ‘the dogma of the faith will be preserved’ seems a reference to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS) and the irrational interpretation of Vatican Council II, which contradicts the dogma EENS.

FATIMA 3RD SECRET

 https://gloria.tv/post/ixt4UVo2Qqi21boChqsZgbw1q

At Fatima, Portugal, ‘the dogma of the faith will be preserved’ seems a reference to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS) and the irrational interpretation of Vatican Council II, which contradicts the dogma EENS. Some time in future, Portugal could interpret Vatican Council II rationally and affirm the strict interpretation of EENS, of the Church Councils ( 1442 etc). -Lionel Andrades

Obviously, the priest was implying that Lumen Gentium 16 referred to a visible case, someone whom we could know in 1965-2024. But we now know that LG 16 refers to an invisible case, always. It is always hypothetical.

 

Yesterday I was talking to a good priest from South Kerala, India and he believed  that I could not say that in Heaven there are only Catholics or Outside the Church there is no salvation. Since for him Lumen Gentium 16 was an objective exception. It says they also can be saved who follow the dictates of his conscience and who are in ignorance. Obviously, he was implying that LG 16 referred to a visible case, someone whom we could know in 1965-2024. But we now know that LG 16 refers to an invisible case, always. It is always hypothetical. So it never ever was an objective exception for the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, the Athanasius Creed and the Syllabus of Errors of Pope Pius IX.

Bishop Athanasius Schneider and Dr. Taylor Marshall have said that there are no literal cases of the baptism of desire (LG 14). There are no explicit cases of someone saved in invincible ignorance, through no fault of his own. So LG 16 is not a break with the past exclusivist ecclesiology of the Catholic Church.  - Lionel Andrades

Going Deep in History Made this Protestant Scholar Catholic (w/ Joshua Charles)

From Evangelical to CATHOLIC! (Anti-Catholic joins Catholic Church!)

Fred (USA) - From Protestant to Catholic

Medjugorje - Anto and a Special Pilgrimage in Ireland

There no more is the extra ecclesiam nulla salus of the Council of Florence( 1441) since allegedly visible cases of the baptism of desire are objective examples of salvation outside the Church. This is also the reasoning of the Society of St. Pius X and the sedevacantists, bishops Pivarunas and Sanborn and also ofPeter and Michael Dimond.

 from Rorate Caeili

Defending the Traditional Mass with Just Arguments -- Theological and Legal - by Father Claude Barthe

 We will deal here only with arguments in defense of the traditional Mass. In particular, we would like to consider two that are often used to justify the free option in favor of the traditional missal:

(1)  The invocation of the bull Quo primum of 1570, insofar as it states that the missal it promulgates may be used “in perpetuity”. And 

(2) the fact that the Church has always recognized the legitimacy of a diversity of rites.

In principle, they are all relevant, but only if we avoid using them as if the circumstances that call for their habitual use were those of today:

https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2024/09/defending-traditional-mass-with-just.html

Defending the Traditional Mass with Just Arguments -- Theological and Legal - by Father Claude Barthe

 

We will deal here only with arguments in defense of the traditional Mass. In particular, we would like to consider two that are often used to justify the free option in favor of the traditional missal:

(1)  The invocation of the bull Quo primum of 1570, insofar as it states that the missal it promulgates may be used “in perpetuity”. And 

(2) the fact that the Church has always recognized the legitimacy of a diversity of rites.

In principle, they are all relevant, but only if we avoid using them as if the circumstances that call for their habitual use were those of today:

https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2024/09/defending-traditional-mass-with-just.html

 

Comment

  

(1)  The invocation of the bull Quo primum of 1570, insofar as it states that the missal it promulgates may be used “in perpetuity”. And 

Lionel: Cardinal Arthur Roche and many cardinals before him, have said that there is a new ecclesiology in the Church, with Vatican Council II ( they mean Vatican Council II irrational and not rational).Even traditionalists interpret the Ccuncil irrationally and so would agree with this false argument.

 

(2)  the fact that the Church has always recognized the legitimacy of a diversity of rites.

True but there is still Vatican Council II ( irrational) which projects objective and literal exceptions for the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, the Athanasius Creed and the Syllabus of Errors. So the Feeneyite ecclesiology of the Roman Missal of the Middle Ages is now obsolete.

There no more is the extra ecclesiam nulla salus of the Council of Florence( 1441) since allegedly visible cases of the baptism of desire are objective examples of salvation outside the Church. This is also the reasoning of the Society of St. Pius X and the sedevacantists, bishops Pivarunas and Sanborn and also ofPeter and Michael Dimond.For me Vatican Council II ( rational) does not make the ecclesiology of the Roman Missal obsolete. Instead it is the new Missal, when interpreted irrationally ( with Cushingism) is obsolete.Claude Barthe will not understand what I am saying here since for him Vatican Council II can only be interpreted irrationally, by confusing LG 8,14,15,16, UR 3,NA 2, GS 2 etc, as being literal cases known in the present times. - Lionel Andrades